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	<title>Comments on: Call for help:  Real story behind the Holocaust?</title>
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	<link>http://timpanogos.wordpress.com/2008/05/04/call-for-help-real-story-behind-the-holocaust/</link>
	<description>Striving for accuracy in history, economics, geography, education, and a little science</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sun, 08 Nov 2009 03:35:04 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Campolo: Still wrong on evolution &#171; Millard Fillmore&#8217;s Bathtub</title>
		<link>http://timpanogos.wordpress.com/2008/05/04/call-for-help-real-story-behind-the-holocaust/#comment-70172</link>
		<dc:creator>Campolo: Still wrong on evolution &#171; Millard Fillmore&#8217;s Bathtub</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Mar 2009 15:15:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timpanogos.wordpress.com/?p=1719#comment-70172</guid>
		<description>[...] &#8220;Call for help:  Real story behind the Holocaust&#8220;  Possibly related posts: (automatically generated)Shame on you, Tony Campolo: Darwin was not racistMega-Post: Post-First Week of InternshipEvolution: A Digital library!Darwin, Mockingbirds and Evolution! [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] &#8220;Call for help:  Real story behind the Holocaust&#8220;  Possibly related posts: (automatically generated)Shame on you, Tony Campolo: Darwin was not racistMega-Post: Post-First Week of InternshipEvolution: A Digital library!Darwin, Mockingbirds and Evolution! [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Announcing the winner of the 2nd Phyllis Schlafly award: &#171; Notes from Evil Bender</title>
		<link>http://timpanogos.wordpress.com/2008/05/04/call-for-help-real-story-behind-the-holocaust/#comment-62828</link>
		<dc:creator>Announcing the winner of the 2nd Phyllis Schlafly award: &#171; Notes from Evil Bender</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 May 2008 17:55:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timpanogos.wordpress.com/?p=1719#comment-62828</guid>
		<description>[...] she provides no examples or support for her claim. But it turns out that Darwin wasn&#8217;t a &#8220;considerable influence&#8221; on Hitler, and that Hitler used a jumble of whatever he could find&#8211;often radically misused&#8211;to [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] she provides no examples or support for her claim. But it turns out that Darwin wasn&#8217;t a &#8220;considerable influence&#8221; on Hitler, and that Hitler used a jumble of whatever he could find&#8211;often radically misused&#8211;to [...]</p>
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		<title>By: toby</title>
		<link>http://timpanogos.wordpress.com/2008/05/04/call-for-help-real-story-behind-the-holocaust/#comment-62751</link>
		<dc:creator>toby</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 May 2008 08:36:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timpanogos.wordpress.com/?p=1719#comment-62751</guid>
		<description>Hitler borrowed his &quot;racial&quot; philosophy from an Englishman called Houston Stewart Chamberlain, who had married Wagner&#039;s daughter.  Chamberlain adopted German citizenship and was a German propagandist during World War I. His racism owed everything to Nietsche&#039;s superman and nothing to Darwininan evolution.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hitler borrowed his &#8220;racial&#8221; philosophy from an Englishman called Houston Stewart Chamberlain, who had married Wagner&#8217;s daughter.  Chamberlain adopted German citizenship and was a German propagandist during World War I. His racism owed everything to Nietsche&#8217;s superman and nothing to Darwininan evolution.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: James</title>
		<link>http://timpanogos.wordpress.com/2008/05/04/call-for-help-real-story-behind-the-holocaust/#comment-62733</link>
		<dc:creator>James</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 May 2008 17:41:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timpanogos.wordpress.com/?p=1719#comment-62733</guid>
		<description>Nineteenth century scientists sometimes got caught up in ideologies and political causes that facilitated twentieth century crimes, but Darwin was not a Nazi.

I&#039;m also obligated to offer the comment that you&#039;ve been tagged in a meme by &lt;i&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://historynotebook.blogspot.com/2008/05/meme-chain.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Patriots
and Peoples&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/i&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nineteenth century scientists sometimes got caught up in ideologies and political causes that facilitated twentieth century crimes, but Darwin was not a Nazi.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m also obligated to offer the comment that you&#8217;ve been tagged in a meme by <i><a href="http://historynotebook.blogspot.com/2008/05/meme-chain.html" rel="nofollow">Patriots<br />
and Peoples</a></i>.</p>
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		<title>By: bernarda</title>
		<link>http://timpanogos.wordpress.com/2008/05/04/call-for-help-real-story-behind-the-holocaust/#comment-62704</link>
		<dc:creator>bernarda</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 May 2008 19:01:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timpanogos.wordpress.com/?p=1719#comment-62704</guid>
		<description>TTT, during all those centuries, xians were killing other xians whom they considered heretics.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>TTT, during all those centuries, xians were killing other xians whom they considered heretics.</p>
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		<title>By: TTT</title>
		<link>http://timpanogos.wordpress.com/2008/05/04/call-for-help-real-story-behind-the-holocaust/#comment-62698</link>
		<dc:creator>TTT</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 May 2008 16:24:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timpanogos.wordpress.com/?p=1719#comment-62698</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s interesting that Ben Stein&#039;s extremist conspiracist American Spectator magazine criticizes Darwin for having allegedly devalued &quot;Judeo-Christian values&quot; and causing the Holocaust, since the very phrase &quot;Judeo-Christian&quot; is really a post-Holocaust term, used by guilty-feeling Christians to try to assure surviving Judeo-s that they&#039;ve stopped killing them.  

Really, a look at the long history of religiously-sanctioned and organized purges, pogroms, segregation, deportation, and massacres of Jews by Christians throughout Europe for the last thousand years or so would be illuminating; however, if this is to be addressed to &quot;Christians who should know better&quot; it will probably turn them off.  Hitler didn&#039;t do anything Martin Luther didn&#039;t want to do, he just happened to have better machines.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s interesting that Ben Stein&#8217;s extremist conspiracist American Spectator magazine criticizes Darwin for having allegedly devalued &#8220;Judeo-Christian values&#8221; and causing the Holocaust, since the very phrase &#8220;Judeo-Christian&#8221; is really a post-Holocaust term, used by guilty-feeling Christians to try to assure surviving Judeo-s that they&#8217;ve stopped killing them.  </p>
<p>Really, a look at the long history of religiously-sanctioned and organized purges, pogroms, segregation, deportation, and massacres of Jews by Christians throughout Europe for the last thousand years or so would be illuminating; however, if this is to be addressed to &#8220;Christians who should know better&#8221; it will probably turn them off.  Hitler didn&#8217;t do anything Martin Luther didn&#8217;t want to do, he just happened to have better machines.</p>
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		<title>By: Ediacaran</title>
		<link>http://timpanogos.wordpress.com/2008/05/04/call-for-help-real-story-behind-the-holocaust/#comment-62697</link>
		<dc:creator>Ediacaran</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 May 2008 15:44:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timpanogos.wordpress.com/?p=1719#comment-62697</guid>
		<description>Be sure to refer to the unexpurgated edition of Darwin&#039;s autobiography edited by his grandaughter Nora Barlow. The edition by Darwin&#039;s son Francis omitted some of the personal and religiously provocative material that was included in the later edition, online at
http://darwin-online.org.uk/content/frameset?viewtype=text&amp;itemID=F1497&amp;pageseq=1

Off immediate topic, but still interesting history - Thomas Jefferson didn&#039;t believe in an immaterial soul, nor in an immaterial God. He thought souls, angels and his god were all material:
http://www.stephenjaygould.org/ctrl/jefferson_jadms.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Be sure to refer to the unexpurgated edition of Darwin&#8217;s autobiography edited by his grandaughter Nora Barlow. The edition by Darwin&#8217;s son Francis omitted some of the personal and religiously provocative material that was included in the later edition, online at<br />
<a href="http://darwin-online.org.uk/content/frameset?viewtype=text&amp;itemID=F1497&amp;pageseq=1" rel="nofollow">http://darwin-online.org.uk/content/frameset?viewtype=text&amp;itemID=F1497&amp;pageseq=1</a></p>
<p>Off immediate topic, but still interesting history &#8211; Thomas Jefferson didn&#8217;t believe in an immaterial soul, nor in an immaterial God. He thought souls, angels and his god were all material:<br />
<a href="http://www.stephenjaygould.org/ctrl/jefferson_jadms.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.stephenjaygould.org/ctrl/jefferson_jadms.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: bernarda</title>
		<link>http://timpanogos.wordpress.com/2008/05/04/call-for-help-real-story-behind-the-holocaust/#comment-62694</link>
		<dc:creator>bernarda</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 May 2008 13:26:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timpanogos.wordpress.com/?p=1719#comment-62694</guid>
		<description>I might add that I don&#039;t know what Darwin thought of the immaterial soul, but J.G. Frazer in &quot;The Golden Bough&quot; described it rather well. Early people we call  animists thought about why not only people, but other animals and even plants do certain things. They then presumed that inside the man, there was a little man that directed them. Of course there is no such thing as a &quot;soul&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I might add that I don&#8217;t know what Darwin thought of the immaterial soul, but J.G. Frazer in &#8220;The Golden Bough&#8221; described it rather well. Early people we call  animists thought about why not only people, but other animals and even plants do certain things. They then presumed that inside the man, there was a little man that directed them. Of course there is no such thing as a &#8220;soul&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: bernarda</title>
		<link>http://timpanogos.wordpress.com/2008/05/04/call-for-help-real-story-behind-the-holocaust/#comment-62693</link>
		<dc:creator>bernarda</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 May 2008 13:14:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timpanogos.wordpress.com/?p=1719#comment-62693</guid>
		<description>These people are using discredited &quot;social darwinism&quot; rather than the real Darwinism of biological evolution. You could look up Stephen Jay Gould. Here is one essay.

http://www.marxists.org/subject/science/essays/kropotkin.htm

&quot;This charge against Darwin is unfair for two reasons. First, nature (no matter how cruel in human terms) provides no basis for our moral values. (Evolution might, at most, help to explain why we have moral feelings, but nature can never decide for us whether any particular action is right or wrong.) Second, Darwin’s “struggle for existence” is an abstract metaphor, not an explicit statement about bloody battle. Reproductive success, the criterion of natural selection, works in many modes: Victory in battle may be one pathway, but cooperation, symbiosis, and mutual aid may also secure success in other times and contexts. In a famous passage, Darwin explained his concept of evolutionary struggle (Origin of Species, 1859, pp. 62-63):

&#039;I use this term in a large and metaphorical sense including dependence of one being on another, and including (which is more important) not only the life of the individual, but success in leaving progeny. Two canine animals, in a time of dearth, may be truly said to struggle with each other which shall get food and live. But a plant on the edge of a desert is said to struggle for life against the drought.... As the mistletoe is disseminated by birds, its existence depends on birds; and it may metaphorically be said to struggle with other fruit-bearing plants, in order to tempt birds to devour and thus disseminate its seeds rather than those of other plants. In these several senses, which pass into each other, I use for convenience sake the general term of struggle for existence&#039;.&quot;

He concludes,

&quot;More generally, I like to apply a somewhat cynical rule of thumb in judging arguments about nature that also have overt social implications: When such claims imbue nature with just those properties that make us feel good or fuel our prejudices, be doubly suspicious. I am especially wary of arguments that find kindness, mutuality, synergism, harmony – the very elements that we strive mightily, and so often unsuccessfully, to put into our own lives – intrinsically in nature. I see no evidence for Teilhard’s noosphere, for Capra’s California style of holism, for Sheldrake’s morphic resonance. Gaia strikes me as a metaphor, not a mechanism. (Metaphors can be liberating and enlightening, but new scientific theories must supply new statements about causality. Gaia, to me, only seems to reformulate, in different terms, the basic conclusions long achieved by classically reductionist arguments of biogeochemical cycling theory.)

There are no shortcuts to moral insight. Nature is not intrinsically anything that can offer comfort or solace in human terms – if only because our species is such an insignificant latecomer in a world not constructed for us. So much the better. The answers to moral dilemmas are not lying out there, waiting to be discovered. They reside, like the kingdom of God, within us – the most difficult and inaccessible spot for any discovery or consensus.&quot;

The last paragraph will probably be used by some ignorant theists as &quot;evidence&quot; that Gould &quot;believed&quot; in god, not being able to understand metaphor.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>These people are using discredited &#8220;social darwinism&#8221; rather than the real Darwinism of biological evolution. You could look up Stephen Jay Gould. Here is one essay.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.marxists.org/subject/science/essays/kropotkin.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.marxists.org/subject/science/essays/kropotkin.htm</a></p>
<p>&#8220;This charge against Darwin is unfair for two reasons. First, nature (no matter how cruel in human terms) provides no basis for our moral values. (Evolution might, at most, help to explain why we have moral feelings, but nature can never decide for us whether any particular action is right or wrong.) Second, Darwin’s “struggle for existence” is an abstract metaphor, not an explicit statement about bloody battle. Reproductive success, the criterion of natural selection, works in many modes: Victory in battle may be one pathway, but cooperation, symbiosis, and mutual aid may also secure success in other times and contexts. In a famous passage, Darwin explained his concept of evolutionary struggle (Origin of Species, 1859, pp. 62-63):</p>
<p>&#8216;I use this term in a large and metaphorical sense including dependence of one being on another, and including (which is more important) not only the life of the individual, but success in leaving progeny. Two canine animals, in a time of dearth, may be truly said to struggle with each other which shall get food and live. But a plant on the edge of a desert is said to struggle for life against the drought&#8230;. As the mistletoe is disseminated by birds, its existence depends on birds; and it may metaphorically be said to struggle with other fruit-bearing plants, in order to tempt birds to devour and thus disseminate its seeds rather than those of other plants. In these several senses, which pass into each other, I use for convenience sake the general term of struggle for existence&#8217;.&#8221;</p>
<p>He concludes,</p>
<p>&#8220;More generally, I like to apply a somewhat cynical rule of thumb in judging arguments about nature that also have overt social implications: When such claims imbue nature with just those properties that make us feel good or fuel our prejudices, be doubly suspicious. I am especially wary of arguments that find kindness, mutuality, synergism, harmony – the very elements that we strive mightily, and so often unsuccessfully, to put into our own lives – intrinsically in nature. I see no evidence for Teilhard’s noosphere, for Capra’s California style of holism, for Sheldrake’s morphic resonance. Gaia strikes me as a metaphor, not a mechanism. (Metaphors can be liberating and enlightening, but new scientific theories must supply new statements about causality. Gaia, to me, only seems to reformulate, in different terms, the basic conclusions long achieved by classically reductionist arguments of biogeochemical cycling theory.)</p>
<p>There are no shortcuts to moral insight. Nature is not intrinsically anything that can offer comfort or solace in human terms – if only because our species is such an insignificant latecomer in a world not constructed for us. So much the better. The answers to moral dilemmas are not lying out there, waiting to be discovered. They reside, like the kingdom of God, within us – the most difficult and inaccessible spot for any discovery or consensus.&#8221;</p>
<p>The last paragraph will probably be used by some ignorant theists as &#8220;evidence&#8221; that Gould &#8220;believed&#8221; in god, not being able to understand metaphor.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike O'Risal</title>
		<link>http://timpanogos.wordpress.com/2008/05/04/call-for-help-real-story-behind-the-holocaust/#comment-62686</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike O'Risal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 May 2008 11:28:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timpanogos.wordpress.com/?p=1719#comment-62686</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t think you can reason with people who start from the premise that they have special access to immutable truth and purpose imbued into their lives by an invisible, self-contradictory being of infinite power and the ghost of a Jewish carpenter born under Roman occupation.  People who believe this to be the foundation of human existence have already thrown away reason and truth.  It doesn&#039;t matter what evidence to the contrary is presented to them; they will always find some way to disregard it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t think you can reason with people who start from the premise that they have special access to immutable truth and purpose imbued into their lives by an invisible, self-contradictory being of infinite power and the ghost of a Jewish carpenter born under Roman occupation.  People who believe this to be the foundation of human existence have already thrown away reason and truth.  It doesn&#8217;t matter what evidence to the contrary is presented to them; they will always find some way to disregard it.</p>
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