Sometime in the spring I let a long-running discussion with pastor Joe Leavell taper off. I thought I’d be back to it more quickly. It’s that sort of summer.
In one of his last posts, Joe said he’d been to a lecture by some folks from the Institute for Creation Research, the same bunch that tried to hornswoggle Texas into letting them grant graduate degrees in science education and biology for teaching creationism to their students instead, as a way of injecting creationism into the schools stealthily but still illegally. Texas refused to give them the authority. ICR promises to appeal and sue for the privilege.
The response was rather lengthy, but they talked about the research that they have been doing over the past 7-8 years or so and the difference accredited scientists that are working for them. They also claimed that creationists get criticized for not writing peer reviewed articles in journals, but they claimed that they had submitted countless articles over the years and they all get rejected. They simply can’t get printed, was the claim, so they print their own stuff. They also pointed me to the RATE project, which honestly, without knowing a ton about science (though I do know some), is very convincing to me.
Here’s the link:
https://www.icr.org/rate/The main argument that I found convincing was the presence of helium in the rocks which wouldn’t be there if the rocks were millions of years old. They said they’ve been working on this project about 8 years and have spent $1.5 million on it. They also submitted all of their research to top labs in the country to make sure they weren’t accused of “fudging” the evidence. Check it out (if you have time) and let me know what you come up with.
I’ll be brief in my response here, at least to start: Same old fraud, not even new wineskins.
Dr. Russell Humphreys, a famous creationism crank (to serious geologists and other scientists), claims that the amount of helium he detected in some zircon crystals was so high that the crystals could not be more than a few thousands of years old, rather than the millions of years old all other dating methods by all other scientists produce. Humphreys’ findings have never been submitted to any science journal for publication, but were instead distributed to donors to a creationist ministry.
Oh, Joe: These guys depend on a lack of normal skepticism and a lack of knowledge to perpetrate these frauds on honest Christians. I do wish more Christians would hold their feet to the fire.
A few observations:
First, this project exhibits most of Bob Parks’ seven warning signs of bogus science. Those signs are:
- The discoverer pitches the claim directly to the media. In this case, to media and donors.
- The discoverer says that a powerful establishment is trying to suppress his or her work. This thread runs through all ICR work. Humphreys’ later attempts at character assassination against his critics specifically for their critiques of the RATE project are exactly the warning sign of bogus science that we should expect, from bogus science. (See the final three paragraphs here.)
- The scientific effect involved is always at the very limit of detection. This sign, not so much.
- Evidence for a discovery is anecdotal. In place of the usual description of methodologies used so other scientists can replicate the measurement, we get a story about samples for other purposes, purloined for this measurement. Most of the critical references to the conclusion were unpublished, or revealed only in crank science publications.
- The discoverer says a belief is credible because it has endured for centuries. See the paper: “Many creationists believed . . .”
- The discoverer has worked in isolation. In this case, it’s difficult to know for certain; there is no methodology, no statement of where the work was carried, by whom, and no peer review. No other labs appear to be working on these issues. Dollars to doughnuts this work at government laboratories in Oak Ridge and Los Alamos is not catalogued in the labs’ work records, nor is it reported to Congress. Not only working in isolation, but completely on the sly.
- The discoverer must propose new laws of nature to explain an observation. Humphreys had earlier proposed diffusion rates far in excess of anything measured, and in this case, he assumes similar, completely uncorroborated conclusions.
Second, the conclusions have been challenged (”debunked” might be a better description) by scientists who know the subject matter. There’s a thorough discussion on Talk.Origins, by Kevin Henke (at the University of Kentucky); to summarize, there is no reason to think that helium could get out of those zircon crystals at depth, especially under the pressures at the depths the samples were recovered from; plus there are other problems:
Throughout Humphreys (2005), Dr. Humphreys stresses that his YEC conclusions must be correct because his Figure 2 shows a supposedly strong correlation between his “creation model” and vacuum helium diffusion measurements from Humphreys (2003a, 2004). However, Dr. Humphreys’ diagram has little scientific merit. First of all, his helium diffusion experiments were performed under a vacuum rather than at realistic pressures that model the subsurface conditions at Fenton Hill (about 200 to 1,200 bars; Winkler, 1979, p. 5). McDougall and Harrison (1999), Dalrymple and Lanphere (1969) and many other researchers have already shown that the diffusion of noble gases in silicate minerals may decrease by at least 3-6 orders of magnitude at a given temperature if the studies are performed under pressure rather than in a vacuum. Secondly, because substantial extraneous helium currently exists in the subsurface of the Valles Caldera, which is only a few kilometers away from the Fenton Hill site, Dr. Humphreys needs to analyze his zircons for 3He, and quartz and other low-uranium minerals in the Fenton Hill cores for extraneous 4He. Thirdly, chemical data in Gentry et al. (1982b) and Zartman (1979) indicate that Humphreys et al. and Gentry et al. (1982a) may have significantly underestimated the amount of uranium in the Fenton Hill zircons, which could reduce many of their Q/Q0 values by at least an order of magnitude and substantially increase Humphreys et al.’s “creation dates.” Dr. Humphreys needs to perform spot analyses for 3He, 4He, lead, and uranium on numerous zircons from all of his and R. Gentry’s samples so that realistic Q/Q0 values may be obtained.
The “dating” equations in Humphreys et al. (2003a) are based on many false assumptions (isotropic diffusion, constant temperatures over time, etc.) and the vast majority of Humphreys et al.’s critical a, b, and Q/Q0 values that are used in these “dating” equations are either missing, poorly defined, improperly measured or inaccurate. Using the best available chemical data on the Fenton Hill zircons from Gentry et al. (1982b) and Zartman (1979), the equations in Humphreys et al. (2003a) provide ridiculous “dates” that range from hundreds to millions of “years” old (average: 60,000 ± 400,000 “years” old [one significant digit and two standard deviations] and not 6,000 ± 2,000 years as claim by Humphreys et al., 2004). Contrary to Humphreys (2005), his mistakes are not petty or peripheral, but completely discredit the reliability of his work.
I think ICR is affect loaded. For years they argued that because there is so little helium in the atmosphere, the Earth cannot be very old. Helium gas floats to the top of the atmosphere and drifts off into space, so there can never be a large accumulation of the stuff in the air. ICR is making a similar argument here: That helium must migrate out of rocks and drift away. Alas, there isn’t much support for the claim that helium cannot be contained in a rock matrix, especially under significantly greater pressures achieved in large rock masses, deep underground. There are a lot of examples of gases being trapped in rocks; that helium in the air drifts away does not mean helium in rock will drift away.
Third, the RATE project tends to rely on disproven or highly questionable claims, rather than solid science. The claims of polonium haloes once were published in a reputable journal, but retracted by the journal after scientists trying to replicate the results discovered that the author had sampled much newer magma intrusions in granite*, and not the base granite at all (* that is, lava that squeezed into cracks in the granite). ICR continues on as if the paper had not been found faulty, as if the results had never been retracted. In any other context, this would be considered academic fraud at best. Were it done as research under a federal grant, it would be a felony.
Fourth, there is the issue of whether RATE can do anything other than fog up the area. One of the original goals of RATE was to date the rocks from Noah’s flood. As you know, claims that such a flood ever occurred are regarded as crank science among geologists. After several years of discussion and meetings, RATE participants announced they had been unable to distinguish which rocks on Earth are pre-flood, and which are post flood. Consequently, dating the rocks of the flood was precluded because they could not be found, reliably (or at all!).
This is long-term scam stuff, Joe. How many little old ladies and upstanding men in how many congregations have given how many millions of dollars to this quackery? Imagine what good could have been done had those dollars gone to honest enterprise among Christians.
Joe, does this stuff make you angry? It should. ICR confesses to have spent $1.5 million in this project over eight years — ostensibly a science project, and yet not one single publishable science paper out of it.
This is academic fraud of the most foul kind, to me. It angers me that ICR carries on these frauds with money contributed by trusting Christians. One has a right to expect better ethics from people who claim to be engaged in ministry for Jesus, I believe.




Stumble It!





January 13, 2009 at 5:39 am
Joe, just FYI:
Another of thousands of found “missing links”:
http://timpanogos.wordpress.com/2009/01/13/found-another-missing-link-primitive-feathers/
January 12, 2009 at 9:13 pm
I’ve spent some decades trying to end ICR superstition fooling conservative Lutherans in America. So far, little success. Just recently I’ve posted some comments on the very informed “Stupid Dinosaur Lies” site. For instance, you should appreciate Job 28:25-28 as contradicting Henry Morris (1976 etc.) denying a creation-time hydrology. His whole 1976 “The Genesis Record” is totally bogus “geology.” In the comments above, I did appreciate the thought that God could have created Earth to look billions of years old. Just hold that thought, and ask “Why?” Because creation “reflects” the Creator (who is eternal, after all). Because only God never changes, therefore everything (!) about his creation has to have at least an “appearance” of change in it. Because, maybe, God intended for created bones (worldwide) to prompt his warning for a holy humanity far from Eden, “So your bones can be, if you choose to forsake me.” And if “dominion” was an issue, then your use of gold (a rare element) would require a created appearance of the natural processes over time that concentrat(ed) it. So what we’re doing is giving fellow Americans a “tertium quid” — a third option, where neither catastrophism nor long-age beliefs are possible for so many Bible Christians. If you want to get in touch, let me know. GLL
January 7, 2009 at 5:35 pm
How would you describe the science? It can’t be replicated. It deviates from common practice as tested and described. It doesn’t use agreed-upon methods by professionals in the field. And it produces a result that is contrary to anything anyone else can do, but which, oddly and probably not coincidentally, pleases the people he asks to give him money. Plus, he refuses to submit it to other scientists for verification, which is a usual route for cranks, crooks and frauds.
Should I call him a “fraud” instead? Perhaps that’s more accurate.
I’d be pleased to not label him a crank, but I won’t do that until he stops using crank methods to get crank science. I’m a Christian, and we regard it sinful to mislead people trying to learn, especially children.
You’re right: “Creationism” makes “crank” redundant. But I was trying to be charitable to Joe, leaving room for a creationist who is not basely dishonest. Perhaps that’s leaving too much room?
“Science elites?” You mean like the “intelligent” and “educated” people the creationists complained about in the Pennsylvania trial?
You bet. I always aim to please intelligent, well-educated people with accuracy. In most enterprises we call that “honesty” and “decency.” I’ve sworn oaths to that effect.
There are no assumptions made. Every criticism is based on replicable, documented, peer-reviewed science. That’s rather the point.
When you ask us to disqualify all of atomic theory, nuclear physics, chemistry and geology, you are already out of the realm of reality. “Crank science” is a lot more polite than “dastardly dishonest” or “total lunatic jeeberjabber.”
But don’t take my word for it. I listed Dr. Henke’s work so you can check it out for yourself. Or you can spend several hours in a good library and check the geology journals. Either way is fine. I’ll wait for you to corroborate.
Some people are so far into crankery that politeness won’t work, though. Do you put Humphreys into that category?
January 7, 2009 at 3:34 pm
When I hear name calling and grand generalizations like this: “Dr. Russell Humphreys, a famous creationism crank … a few thousands of years old, rather than the millions of years old all other dating methods by all other scientists produce.”
“CREATIONISM CRANK, ALL OTHER DATING METHODS, ALL OTHER SCIENTISTS.”
Sounds to me like the person responding to Joe does not have a good argument so name-calling is substituted objective criticism and the use of “ALL” sounds like the responder is fishing for corroboration from the science elites. The rest of the responders comments lack facts. His response is full of assertions and assumptions, not science. Show me where I’m wrong.
November 23, 2008 at 1:21 am
Denton’s book is dated, seriously, nor was it ever particularly accurate. Evolution theory has grown only stronger in the past 60 years. Things Denton claims as problems are not. Gradualism isn’t necessary for Darwin’s theory. To the extent Denton made any claims against evolution, his claims have all been answered now, and evolution is much stronger than it was then.
You might do well to check out a few more recent books on the issue. Try Jonathan Weiner’s The Beak of the Finch, a story of evolution in our time (though it’s only 8 years newer than Denton, it’s well written and chock full of science). Or try Stephen Jones rewrite of Darwin’s big book, in the light of evidence we have now, Darwin’s Ghost. Or see Carl Zimmer’s Evolution, the companion volume to the PBS series “Evolution.”
Detailed responses to Denton are still available through Talk.Origins.
November 22, 2008 at 7:08 pm
A good book about the theories of evolution (they change–”evolve”) is EVOLUTION: A THEORY IN CRISIS by Michael Denton. He addresses problems with the original theory, problems foreseen by Darwin, as well as with later theories trying to establish gradualism. He isn’t grinding any religious ax: as far as I can learn he is not a Christian and probably not a theist at all. This is an old book, published in 1986, but I think that the problems discussed still apply.
November 7, 2008 at 3:26 pm
SOLOMON SAMI AZAR said…
And in the continued spirit of such claims- i have solved the energy crisis-period-:)
Hello, my name is Solomon Azar- I HAVE FOUND THE ROAD TO SAFE CLEAN NUCLEAR FUSION- When this is found and understood- the energy crisis will end- I have been looking at this system since 2002 and it is perfect in every way. I finished my experiments April-2007. I have since that time tried to the best of my abilities to inform many people upon the net- there is no question I have done so in an unorthodox manner- but in time it will be found my road traveled to solve this energy crisis was unorthodoxed -all my motives are for the betterment of mankind- you have your way- I have mine- it will make complete sense when heard in public of my approach- have faith :)
I have performed an experiment never done before in science- I used a Tesla coil for its use in high voltage high frequency and apply its discharge plasma not upon the dielectric of free air- but to the dielectric of water itself- specifically I used ultrapure reagent grade water from manufacture NERL-this is to establish the high degree of insulation needed for plasma (you cannot have contaminants for conductivity)- I doped my water with heavy water from the manufacturer UNITED NUCLEAR-(however- a full concentration of heavy water is desired)- I built my 1 million volt Tesla coil entire tunable- every aspect of it- as it must be done to TUNE THE OUTPUT DISCHARGE OF THE TESLA COIL to the water itself- once the arc is stable- the voltage may be increased- I have written in my pdf file in my website of noblefuse.com that a prerequisite of 750 kv is needed as an electric field gradient about the charged particles used in fusion( in this case the hydrogen bound in the water molecule) because of voltage drops as expected as in all electrical systems upon the load (load here is the water)- a much higher voltage is needed in order to distribute the voltage gradient upon entire arc plasma length between electrodes in water- THUS- THE HIGH THE VOLTAGE- THE BETTER- within my website you will find a link to youtube showing my primitive experiment- BUT MAKE NO MISTAKE ABOUT THIS- THIS IS THE FIRST TIME EVER DONE BEFORE – I propose nuclear fusion of water/heavy water- my little experiment IS THE ROAD TO NUCLEAR FUSION- we must universally connect the dots- put two and two together- and conclude this- MY EXPERIMENT MUST BE REPEATED ON A LARGER SCALE- my system is a direct replacement of nuclear power plants particularly of the pressurized water reactor which uses heavy water already – a vessel already built for gamma radiation and other high energy flux which will emit with the plasma arc-
Power reactor in which the heat is dissipated from the core using highly pressurized water (about 160 bar) to achieve a high temperature and avoid boiling within the core. The cooling water transfers its heat to the secondary system in a steam generator. Example: Grohnde Nuclear Power Plant in Germany with an electrical output of 1,430 MW.
Replace the rod assemblies and use electrodes to conduct the Lightning bolt! High Voltage High frequency will create the magnetic pinch to slam the isotopes of hydrogen together which is bound in water- helium and oxygen are the outgassed products recaptured by expansion tanks-it is absolutely perfect!
_ I HAVE FOUND THE TRUE PURPOSE OF THE TESLA COIL- the answer was always in the lightning bolt- understanding of gamma bursts from lightning discharges have only been recently vindicated from satellite in late 90s—
CA 94305 United States
Said, R ( ) , STAR Lab, Electrical Engineering, 350 Serra Mall, Stanford, CA 94305 United States
Smith, D M ( ) , Physics Department and Santa Cruz Institute for Particle Physics, University of California, Santa Cruz, 1156 High Street, Santa Cruz, CA 95064 United States
Lopez, L I ( ) , Astronomy Department and Space Sciences Laboratory, University of California, Berkeley, CA 94720 United States
The observation of brief (<1 ms) bursts of intense γ-rays, the so-called Terrestrial Gamma-ray Flashes (TGFs), by the BATSE γ-ray experiment was one of the most unexpected discoveries by the Compton Gamma-Ray Observatory.
Let me try to give another analogy to make the point. think about striking a match, if all conditions are proper , one knows that to strike a match, you must go a minimum speed- you cannot strike the match too slowly- this is understood as more speed is more friction and thus more activation energy necessary to create combustion of the match material. the same applies to this fusion system, first, imagine my system as inside a pressurized water reactor used in fission plants- the moderator is already heavy water- we shall use it as the fuel. I have said the plasma arc looks exactly like our friend the electric lightning bolt- but I talk about in my pdf file- that the so called lightning bolt must be understood in regards to high voltage and frequency- just like the minimum speed needed for the match- so it is with the combination on high voltage and frequency to not only resonate with the dielectric molecule of heavy water- but more so- to create a minimum velocity upon charged particles in the fuel water. this velocity is also exhibiting itself as a magnetic field-think of the cathode ray scope- in a snap shot instant in time for analysis, look at when the maximum energy is being applied on a per strike basis of the input cycle- or shall we say the highest amplitude of the ac signal. if for example- an input energy of one megawatt was injected into the strike of the arc- a magnetic pinch shall be directed upon the charged particles in transit of the discharge- in a thermodynamic extraction process such as this – we need at least 5 times more energy out of the system to recoup our initial energy input- and a surplus for commercial energy supply- thus- via fusion of hydrogen to helium- with each strike- a minimum voltage and frequency SHALL give the minimum activation energy required for magnetic pinching and fusion of the isotopes of hydrogen. to increase the q of the reaction in this system- a magnetic toroid may be used around the plasma arc for increased efficiency= such as used in tokamak devices. I hope this analogy helps those who question this system- THANK YOU–
Here is a thought experiment for electromagnetic fusion with Einstein in mind
Pretend you are water-you are an oxygen atom- you are stable- you are noble- 8 protons-8 neutrons-and 8 electrons- there are only 5 magic shell nuclear elements of the periodic table- oxygen is one of them- it is very stable-
Therefore- you are stable and noble- you have no need for fusion- yet it could happen- but the probability of another element such as hydrogen and its isotopes would be made to fuse together in some kind of fashion mankind tries will occur way before oxygen does- – ok-so now you are this noble one and you have outstretched in your hands a hydrogen atom and or its isotope deuteron and you hold it out to mankind as a gift-
Man understands the gift of fusion for many years and is desperately trying to do such-
I propose electromagnetic fusion- I propose the BENNET pinch used in poloidal currents used in plasmas of tokomaks- but much further-
Here we go – the thought experiment- you are this oxygen atom with two hydrogen’s and you stand amongst your friends similar in nature. You are placed in a large vessel filled of your kind-now imagine that two walls opposing in this vessel are the plates of a capacitor- who cares what is applied to the capacitor plates (electrodes of system)-for all you know as a noble oxygen and the hydrogen you have in your hands is nothing more than the electric field upon the plates-
You are composed of charged particles- thus you will interact with the applied electric field of the plates-this is common electronics and electric knowledge-
However, I speak of dielectric breakdown- I speak of the lightning bolt- let us now assume we have made the capacitor plates oscillate at 1 million volts peak to peak as way of a tesla coil
Think of the electric field- everything will be controlled by this field- a dielectric breakdown will occur- and all discharge current will begin to flow and oscillate as a function of the applied voltage-
Now- you are in the heart of a lightning bolt- you who are noble as a oxygen probably lost all your valence electrons due to the magnitude of such a high electric field- every charged particle in transit of the discharge current is surely ionized and talks of being a complete water molecule should be erased- the state of this plasma current is nothing more than ionized hydrogen and oxygen and a complete sea of electrons-
Let us think first of the electrons- 1896 times smaller than protons- no question it will oscillate much faster as a function to the applied voltage- remember the cathode ray scope- basic physics also will say this charged particle will also have a magnetic field about itself because of the electric field that has driven it-thus- this oscillating electron current will have an intrinsic magnetic field
Let us now think of the protons- oxygen has 8 and surrounded by 8 neutrons and is far less likely for reaction than isotopes of hydrogen for fusion- this should merely be understood by refereeing to atomic tables of elements and known theory- but this hydrogen is a singly bound proton with mass one- unless we speak of a deuteron- it will also be controlled exactly the same way as the electron is affected by the external applied voltage- however- it is opposite to the electrons motion-and much slower by its mass – however-its magnetic field will add to that of the electrons- this is standard knowledge of magnetic field generation of charged particles by way of electric fields-
Thus, in this thought experiment- within this state of dielectric breakdown- I like to say the lightning bolt- can you now see the oscillation of the charged particles by such a large magnitude of the applied voltage plates- can you now see the probability at a certain moment in time- particularly when the applied ac signal is greatest- that all magnetic fields of charged particles in transit can have the power to be magnetically pinched-
Magnetics have push and pull- it is well known that high frequency causes a constriction upon electrical currents- whether in copper lines and forcing such to the surface- or in plasma and made use to constrict it – high frequency is known to constrict the currents- thus- do you see the forces I am referring to as this dielectric breakdown has occurred upon the most perfect fuel of the heavens- water- this oxygen atom holds the hydrogen for us- we shall apply a high voltage (high is relative- I have stated 750kv in the vicinity of the hydrogen for fusion- I come to this by way of understanding the beta decay of a free neutron- if it can disintegrate- it can come together- made into a deuteron- then made into helium)-
Thus –we make helium and oxygen is then unbound and must also be recaptured- this is easy in expansion tanks- the byproducts are helium and oxygen-truly noble-
To increase the q of this system- a simple toroidal magnet as used in tokamaks for plasma control may be used for additional pinching-
I hope this helps- however- you must always think of the applied electric field and its magnetic inducement upon the charged particles- we will stably run the Tesla coil upon the dielectric of water itself (more appropriately heavy water) and turn up the voltage for greater acceleration speeds and thus magnetic fields- we can control pressure in this vessel- we can control electrode spacing and so much more-
that is my thought experiment for you to understand it is my intention to use all input energy by way of oscillating a very large electric field which will induce the proper magnetic flux density in units of Tesla for a pinching- not established hot fusion whereby all energy input is chaotic and the probability of fusion comes by way of statistics from a gas equation- no- high voltage and high frequency in an orderly manner by the construction of a man made lightning bolt with controllable parameters inside an existing pressurized nuclear reactor- everything is off the shelf- the world will run on steam power again globally-from trains-factories-ships-and all power plants- I offer the Watt steam engine again- not with two sticks to make fire and boil the water- but electromagnetic fusion with two electrodes to induce fusion of hydrogen isotopes to boil water and make steam- it is absolutely perfect.
To the CEO’s of nuclear power plants-or pressurized coal fired- you have spare reactors in the back yards of your plants- take a 1 million volt tesla coil and do what I have said- you will measure its fusion reactions and you will conclude this – I have found the road to safe clean energy.
I speak plain science- please connect the dots and let us end this energy crisis for a world that desperately needs energy- May the light of God shine upon all our actions for the betterment of mankind
Solomon Sami Azar
August 20, 2008 at 3:10 pm
Can’t necessarily criticize them for not publishing, so long as they do not then claim that what they have NOT published is good science.
The ethics of science require sharing results and data. No sharing, no playing. That’s a good rule, on the playground, in the laboratory, on the farm and in the cancer wards.
Are you suggesting that creationist studies could not get published? So far, every paper ever written supporting creationism has been published. At least two were later retracted.
But creationists cannot honestly claim that there is any bias against publishing creationist research when there is no demonstrated bias, and when any evidence supports claims of a bias in favor of publishing creationism.
In the Arkansas trial, it became quite clear that creationists simply refused to submit anything to any journal. That’s not the fault of science and the journals. In later trials, it has become clear that one of the key reasons there are no papers submitted is because there is no research being done, and hence, no research to write up to submit.
Creationists are not stopped from publishing by science. Creationists are stopped from publishing by their own lethargy in research and flaccidness in writing.
The threads here are open always. Drop by and comment when you have time.
August 20, 2008 at 1:42 pm
Hey Ed,
I’m still around, but like you, have let the conversations slip away because of a super busy schedule. Just thought I’d check in to see what you’ve been up to and say “Hi” but then saw this thread, of course.
Just a quick question in here: If no one ever WOULD publish their findings in a peer reviewed journal, is it right to criticize it for NOT publishing it? If you can find where they have turned down peer reviewed journals then I may join your criticism here, but as far as I’ve seen, this is not the case.
It’s like you blocking me from ever posting on your blog here and then questioning and mocking me for posting on my own blog that my own friends look at because no one else will let me post. It wouldn’t make sense. I haven’t really had time to look into your other claims, but this claim that they don’t get peer reviewed when I have read many articles by scientists who say they wouldn’t give their stuff the time of day anyway, is just ridiculous!
August 19, 2008 at 11:39 pm
Any claims about work at an Oak Ridge or Los Alamos lab should be cataloged and findable using http://www.scienceaccelerator.gov, http://www.science.gov, or worldwidescience.org. Public funded research papers, abstracts, conferences, websites, and pre-print material are managed by the US DOE OSTI. OSTI is located in Oak Ridge, TN.
August 14, 2008 at 6:36 am
I just thought of an interesting scenario to pose to Dr. Humphreys (and all the other the-earth-is-only-6K-years-old-ers):
“Maybe God designed the Earth so it would appear that it’s 4.5 billion years old. Maybe he’ll be angry if you claim it’s not.”
It would be interesting to see how long it takes them to come up with an excuse for that one.