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	<title>Comments on: Quote of the moment:  Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr., on taxes</title>
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	<link>http://timpanogos.wordpress.com/2008/10/09/quote-of-the-moment-oliver-wendell-holmes-jr-on-taxes/</link>
	<description>Striving for accuracy in history, economics, geography, education, and a little science</description>
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		<title>By: Quote of the moment, still, again: Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr., on taxes as the price for civilization &#171; Millard Fillmore&#039;s Bathtub</title>
		<link>http://timpanogos.wordpress.com/2008/10/09/quote-of-the-moment-oliver-wendell-holmes-jr-on-taxes/#comment-265584</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Quote of the moment, still, again: Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr., on taxes as the price for civilization &#171; Millard Fillmore&#039;s Bathtub]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Jan 2013 05:56:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timpanogos.wordpress.com/?p=2961#comment-265584</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] This is mostly an encore post. [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] This is mostly an encore post. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Taxes! What Are They Good For? &#171; All Fired Up In The Big Smoke</title>
		<link>http://timpanogos.wordpress.com/2008/10/09/quote-of-the-moment-oliver-wendell-holmes-jr-on-taxes/#comment-249299</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Taxes! What Are They Good For? &#171; All Fired Up In The Big Smoke]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Oct 2012 17:34:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timpanogos.wordpress.com/?p=2961#comment-249299</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] You know who likes paying taxes? Take it away, former mayor Mel Lastman. N-o-o-o-o-body! Except maybe Jesus who bade us to render onto Caesar what was Caesar’s and Oliver Wendell Holmes with his belief that taxes made for civilization. [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] You know who likes paying taxes? Take it away, former mayor Mel Lastman. N-o-o-o-o-body! Except maybe Jesus who bade us to render onto Caesar what was Caesar’s and Oliver Wendell Holmes with his belief that taxes made for civilization. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: GOP Advocates Middle-Class Tax INCREASE &#171; Steve Bates, The Yellow Doggerel Something</title>
		<link>http://timpanogos.wordpress.com/2008/10/09/quote-of-the-moment-oliver-wendell-holmes-jr-on-taxes/#comment-160356</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[GOP Advocates Middle-Class Tax INCREASE &#171; Steve Bates, The Yellow Doggerel Something]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Oct 2011 14:48:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timpanogos.wordpress.com/?p=2961#comment-160356</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] me admit upfront that I agree wholeheartedly with the great Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr.: &#8220;I like paying taxes. With them I buy civilization.&#8221; About taxes, I am probably the [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] me admit upfront that I agree wholeheartedly with the great Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr.: &#8220;I like paying taxes. With them I buy civilization.&#8221; About taxes, I am probably the [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Ed Darrell</title>
		<link>http://timpanogos.wordpress.com/2008/10/09/quote-of-the-moment-oliver-wendell-holmes-jr-on-taxes/#comment-125298</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ed Darrell]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 Apr 2011 14:16:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timpanogos.wordpress.com/?p=2961#comment-125298</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thank you, Mr. Morris!

Here&#039;s the full quote -- just a bit different from what we have above (emphasis added), emphasizing the difference between taxes and penalties:



&lt;blockquote&gt;The plaintiff&#039;s reliance is upon &lt;em&gt;Allgeyer v. Louisiana, 165 U.S. 578 , 17 S. Ct. 427&lt;/em&gt;, in which it was held that a fine could not be imposed by the State for sending a notice similar to the present to an insurance company out of the State. But it seems to me that the tax was justified and that this case is distinguished from that of &lt;em&gt;Allgeyer&lt;/em&gt; and from &lt;em&gt;St. Louis Cotton Compress Co. v. Arkansas, 260 U.S. 346 , 43 S. Ct. 125&lt;/em&gt;, by the difference between a penalty and a tax. It is true, as indicated in the last cited case, that every exaction of money for an act is a discouragement to the extent of the payment required, but that which in its immediacy is a discouragement may be part of an encouragement when seen in its organic connection with the whole. &lt;b&gt;Taxes are what we pay for civilized society&lt;/b&gt;, including the chance to insure. A penalty on the other hand is intended altogether to prevent the thing punished. It readily may be seen that a State may tax things that under the Constitution as interpreted it can not prevent. The constitutional right asserted in &lt;em&gt;Allgeyer v. Louisiana&lt;/em&gt; to earn one&#039;s livelihood by any lawful calling certainly is consistent, as we all know, with the calling being taxed. 

&lt;a href=&quot;http://laws.findlaw.com/us/275/87.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Compania General de Tabacos de Filipinas v. Collector of Internal Revenue, 275 U.S. 87 (1927)&lt;/a&gt; (here from FindLaw)&lt;/blockquote&gt;

See also the &lt;a href=&quot;http://lachlan.bluehaze.com.au/usa2002/may2002/31may2002a/index.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;website with photos from the late Lachlan Cranswick&lt;/a&gt;.

It makes you wonder, though:  Did Holmes later add that part about &quot;I like to pay taxes?&quot;

]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you, Mr. Morris!</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s the full quote &#8212; just a bit different from what we have above (emphasis added), emphasizing the difference between taxes and penalties:</p>
<blockquote><p>The plaintiff&#8217;s reliance is upon <em>Allgeyer v. Louisiana, 165 U.S. 578 , 17 S. Ct. 427</em>, in which it was held that a fine could not be imposed by the State for sending a notice similar to the present to an insurance company out of the State. But it seems to me that the tax was justified and that this case is distinguished from that of <em>Allgeyer</em> and from <em>St. Louis Cotton Compress Co. v. Arkansas, 260 U.S. 346 , 43 S. Ct. 125</em>, by the difference between a penalty and a tax. It is true, as indicated in the last cited case, that every exaction of money for an act is a discouragement to the extent of the payment required, but that which in its immediacy is a discouragement may be part of an encouragement when seen in its organic connection with the whole. <b>Taxes are what we pay for civilized society</b>, including the chance to insure. A penalty on the other hand is intended altogether to prevent the thing punished. It readily may be seen that a State may tax things that under the Constitution as interpreted it can not prevent. The constitutional right asserted in <em>Allgeyer v. Louisiana</em> to earn one&#8217;s livelihood by any lawful calling certainly is consistent, as we all know, with the calling being taxed. </p>
<p><a href="http://laws.findlaw.com/us/275/87.html" rel="nofollow">Compania General de Tabacos de Filipinas v. Collector of Internal Revenue, 275 U.S. 87 (1927)</a> (here from FindLaw)</p></blockquote>
<p>See also the <a href="http://lachlan.bluehaze.com.au/usa2002/may2002/31may2002a/index.html" rel="nofollow">website with photos from the late Lachlan Cranswick</a>.</p>
<p>It makes you wonder, though:  Did Holmes later add that part about &#8220;I like to pay taxes?&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Donald Morris</title>
		<link>http://timpanogos.wordpress.com/2008/10/09/quote-of-the-moment-oliver-wendell-holmes-jr-on-taxes/#comment-125273</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Donald Morris]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 Apr 2011 09:42:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timpanogos.wordpress.com/?p=2961#comment-125273</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The quote attributed to Oliver Wendell Holmes Jr., “Taxes are the price we pay for a civilized society” and originally phrased as “Taxes are what we pay for civilized society,” in his dissenting opinion in Compania General De Tabacos De Filipinas v. Collector of Internal Revenue, 275 U.S. 87, 100, (1927), appears above the entrance to the Internal Revenue Service headquarters at 1111 Constitution Avenue, Washington, D.C..]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The quote attributed to Oliver Wendell Holmes Jr., “Taxes are the price we pay for a civilized society” and originally phrased as “Taxes are what we pay for civilized society,” in his dissenting opinion in Compania General De Tabacos De Filipinas v. Collector of Internal Revenue, 275 U.S. 87, 100, (1927), appears above the entrance to the Internal Revenue Service headquarters at 1111 Constitution Avenue, Washington, D.C..</p>
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		<title>By: Convenient Arguments &#171; Föhrenbergkreis Finanzwirtschaft</title>
		<link>http://timpanogos.wordpress.com/2008/10/09/quote-of-the-moment-oliver-wendell-holmes-jr-on-taxes/#comment-124824</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Convenient Arguments &#171; Föhrenbergkreis Finanzwirtschaft]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Mar 2011 14:44:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timpanogos.wordpress.com/?p=2961#comment-124824</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] And according to Ed Darrell, he probably did say something like [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] And according to Ed Darrell, he probably did say something like [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Convenient Arguments &#171; The Baseline Scenario</title>
		<link>http://timpanogos.wordpress.com/2008/10/09/quote-of-the-moment-oliver-wendell-holmes-jr-on-taxes/#comment-124380</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Convenient Arguments &#171; The Baseline Scenario]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Mar 2011 17:21:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timpanogos.wordpress.com/?p=2961#comment-124380</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] And according to Ed Darrell, he probably did say something like [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] And according to Ed Darrell, he probably did say something like [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Quote of the moment, still: Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr., on taxes as the price for civilization &#171; Millard Fillmore&#8217;s Bathtub</title>
		<link>http://timpanogos.wordpress.com/2008/10/09/quote-of-the-moment-oliver-wendell-holmes-jr-on-taxes/#comment-97534</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Quote of the moment, still: Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr., on taxes as the price for civilization &#171; Millard Fillmore&#8217;s Bathtub]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Apr 2010 18:06:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timpanogos.wordpress.com/?p=2961#comment-97534</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] This is mostly an encore post. [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] This is mostly an encore post. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: In Defeat, Defiance &#171; Freedom Corner</title>
		<link>http://timpanogos.wordpress.com/2008/10/09/quote-of-the-moment-oliver-wendell-holmes-jr-on-taxes/#comment-96966</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[In Defeat, Defiance &#171; Freedom Corner]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Mar 2010 13:53:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timpanogos.wordpress.com/?p=2961#comment-96966</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] the U.S. Supreme Court by Progressive Republican President Theodore Roosevelt in 1902. Holmes also said, &#8220;I like taxes. With them I buy civilization.&#8221; Up &#8217;til now, I had failed to come [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] the U.S. Supreme Court by Progressive Republican President Theodore Roosevelt in 1902. Holmes also said, &#8220;I like taxes. With them I buy civilization.&#8221; Up &#8217;til now, I had failed to come [...]</p>
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		<title>By: In Defeat, Defiance &#124; Lux Libertas - Light and Liberty</title>
		<link>http://timpanogos.wordpress.com/2008/10/09/quote-of-the-moment-oliver-wendell-holmes-jr-on-taxes/#comment-96964</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[In Defeat, Defiance &#124; Lux Libertas - Light and Liberty]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Mar 2010 12:29:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timpanogos.wordpress.com/?p=2961#comment-96964</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] the U.S. Supreme Court by Progressive Republican President Theodore Roosevelt in 1902. Holmes also said, &#8220;I like taxes. With them I buy [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] the U.S. Supreme Court by Progressive Republican President Theodore Roosevelt in 1902. Holmes also said, &#8220;I like taxes. With them I buy [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Putting the Tea Parties into the history books &#171; Millard Fillmore&#8217;s Bathtub</title>
		<link>http://timpanogos.wordpress.com/2008/10/09/quote-of-the-moment-oliver-wendell-holmes-jr-on-taxes/#comment-71354</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Putting the Tea Parties into the history books &#171; Millard Fillmore&#8217;s Bathtub]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Apr 2009 12:24:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timpanogos.wordpress.com/?p=2961#comment-71354</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] Sargent was a little less subtle, in the Austin American-Statesman, using that Oliver Wendell Holmes quote we looked at some time ago. Ben Sargent, Austin American-Statesman, copyright [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Sargent was a little less subtle, in the Austin American-Statesman, using that Oliver Wendell Holmes quote we looked at some time ago. Ben Sargent, Austin American-Statesman, copyright [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Jello</title>
		<link>http://timpanogos.wordpress.com/2008/10/09/quote-of-the-moment-oliver-wendell-holmes-jr-on-taxes/#comment-68212</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jello]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Dec 2008 20:04:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timpanogos.wordpress.com/?p=2961#comment-68212</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Russ: The quote is from the early 1930s ... ya know, the dirty 30s. Taxes were around 63%, compared to the ~30% now.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Russ: The quote is from the early 1930s &#8230; ya know, the dirty 30s. Taxes were around 63%, compared to the ~30% now.</p>
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		<title>By: Ed Darrell</title>
		<link>http://timpanogos.wordpress.com/2008/10/09/quote-of-the-moment-oliver-wendell-holmes-jr-on-taxes/#comment-67501</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ed Darrell]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Oct 2008 18:28:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timpanogos.wordpress.com/?p=2961#comment-67501</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Russ, the highest tax rate now is just over 30%.  67%?  I think you&#039;re confusing the U.S. with someone else.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Russ, the highest tax rate now is just over 30%.  67%?  I think you&#8217;re confusing the U.S. with someone else.</p>
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		<title>By: Ed Darrell</title>
		<link>http://timpanogos.wordpress.com/2008/10/09/quote-of-the-moment-oliver-wendell-holmes-jr-on-taxes/#comment-67500</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ed Darrell]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Oct 2008 18:27:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timpanogos.wordpress.com/?p=2961#comment-67500</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Which IRS building?  Which door?  I&#039;d love to confirm that, but have been unable to find an image or source that confirms.  Can you help, Michael?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Which IRS building?  Which door?  I&#8217;d love to confirm that, but have been unable to find an image or source that confirms.  Can you help, Michael?</p>
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		<title>By: MICHAEL</title>
		<link>http://timpanogos.wordpress.com/2008/10/09/quote-of-the-moment-oliver-wendell-holmes-jr-on-taxes/#comment-67495</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[MICHAEL]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Oct 2008 14:51:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timpanogos.wordpress.com/?p=2961#comment-67495</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[On the Internal Revenue Service Building in Washington, D.C. the Holmes quote is carved into the limestone facade.  I believe that as rendered there it reads:  &quot;Taxes are the price we pay for civilization.&quot;  It is attributed to Holmes there.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On the Internal Revenue Service Building in Washington, D.C. the Holmes quote is carved into the limestone facade.  I believe that as rendered there it reads:  &#8220;Taxes are the price we pay for civilization.&#8221;  It is attributed to Holmes there.</p>
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		<title>By: Russ</title>
		<link>http://timpanogos.wordpress.com/2008/10/09/quote-of-the-moment-oliver-wendell-holmes-jr-on-taxes/#comment-67366</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Russ]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Oct 2008 21:42:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timpanogos.wordpress.com/?p=2961#comment-67366</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[My question is this:  In what year did he say it?  When income taxes were 1% or 2% or when they were 67%?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My question is this:  In what year did he say it?  When income taxes were 1% or 2% or when they were 67%?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Ginger</title>
		<link>http://timpanogos.wordpress.com/2008/10/09/quote-of-the-moment-oliver-wendell-holmes-jr-on-taxes/#comment-67293</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ginger]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Oct 2008 02:43:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timpanogos.wordpress.com/?p=2961#comment-67293</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks for this! I was looking all over to see if the quote was true...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for this! I was looking all over to see if the quote was true&#8230;</p>
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