Turn up the craziness that is opposition to health care reform, and you get genuine, full-blown “hot zone” conspiracy wholly ungrounded in reality.
Like coathangers, hoaxes multiply in the closet! Put ‘em in the dark, they’ll invent stuff beyond your wildest imagination. It’s a perfect storm of voodoo science, voodoo history, paranoia and just plain hysteria.
But they’ll swear it’s true.
A new hoax claims the World Health Organization (WHO) got a secret law passed to allow them to take over the world just as soon as they can get a few more people to catch swine flu. No, really.
Under special pandemic plans enacted around the world including the USA, in 2005, national governments are to be dissolved in the event of a pandemic emergency and replaced by special crisis committees, which take charge of the health and security infrastructure of a country, and which are answerable to the WHO and EU in Europe and to the WHO and UN in North America.
If the Model Emergency Health Powers Act is implemented on the instructions of WHI, it will be a criminal offence for Americans to refuse the vaccine. Police are allowed to use deadly force against “criminal” suspects.
Through their control of these special pandemic crisis committees with the power to enact legislation to be set up most countries, the WHO, UN and EU become the de facto government of a large part of the world.
Mass murder and death will also bring economic collapse and disruption, starvation and wars – and these events will lead to a further population reduction.
Absolutely false. WHO has no such plans. Check with your health professionals, they’ll tell you swine flu is a real concern (even though it looks like swift action has prevented a lot of trouble so far, and may prevent a lot of ill health later).
If you made up this sort of stuff for a movie, they’d tell you “Dr. Strangelove” pushed the envelope as far as parody would go, and you should give up writing comedy, even dark comedy.
Did you notice the typographical error there in the second paragraph, where “WHO” turns into “WHI?”
That’s a DNA-style marker for this hoax. Watch for it as it shows up at other sites where tinfoil-hat bedorned people mindlessly copy this chunk of fiction and pass it along as if it were just news about the new shopping center going in around the corner.
Much of the nuttiness appears to originate at WakeNews, from someone named Jane Bürgermeister who has grabbed .pdfs of a couple of WHO memoranda on the dangers of swine flu, and claims that instead of warnings about swine flu based on research, they are textbooks for how to use swine flu as a weapon of war against civilians. Or it may be originating at a website she may run, Case About Birdflu (this is the url, I kid you not: http://birdflu666.wordpress.com/) (This post, about her being fired, and with lots of “attagirls” from too-willing nutters, should be a roadmap for Prozac salesmen.)
Do not any of these people ever stop to wonder, “Hmmmm. Curious about how this doesn’t appear on the WHO website, and how there are no links to anything that sounds even tangentially rational — I wonder if it’s true?”
Wall of Shame: Here are sites that repeated the hoax blindly, without even bothering to correct the typo (notice how few of these sites will allow you to point out an error):
- Socio-economics History Blog
- The Tree of Liberty discussion board
- Farmwars
- The Universal Seduction (unable to resist being seduced itself . . .)
- Citizens for Legitimate Government
- World News Bulletin (hoping somehow to spread the truth of the Bible by spreading untruths)
- Battalion of Deborah
- One Radio Network
- Educate Yourself
- Heidi Lore
- Conspiracy Central (finally truth in advertising!)
- TruInternational
- SOTT.net (signs of the times)
- [watch for updates; this hoax rumor is multiplying like maggots on a roadkill armadillo on a hot Texas day]
- Labor Day update: If Dr. Mercola at Mercola.com has a doctorate to practice anything — medicine, law, psychology, cosmetology, barbering — it should be yanked. He is misinforming people with feeble minded tendencies on this issue for his own profit (see his sales section). I think one can make a good case that a physician advising patients as his blogging does, would be open to malpractice. (Thanks for the warning in comments, Angeleyeslady.)
Reality: No plans to take over the world; tough plans to fight swine flu
Swine flu, more specifically the H1N1 virus, poses severe threats to real people, including you. WHO has plans to combat the disease and its spread — laid out publicly here, for example. There is even a Center for Strategic Health Operations (SHOC in the odd acronymical lexicon of the UN).
Preparations to fight epidemics and pandemics are part and parcel of public health operations around the world. Almost every county in the United States has a public health office that makes plans for how to protect the local community from such diseases, and how to treat people who get the disease to help them survive. Those who spread these hoaxes rarely know that they have people in their towns to do this work — the United Nations and WHO have no authority to intervene in these cases.
What about the Model Emergency Health Act? Proposals under that name exist — none allow people to be executed for refusing vaccinations. As a matter of U.S. policy, almost all health legislation includes an out for religious objectors — Christian Scientists, for example, generally refuse vaccinations and much other treatment. Jehovah Witnessses refuse transfusions. In almost every case, those religious beliefs can be accommodated so long as the rest of us bother to protect ourselves against disease.
All of the proposals are designed to help public health officials fight disease. Public health officials might be described as the embodiment of the name Milquetoast. They are rarely in the forefront of your run-of-the-mill power-mad megalomaniac. Former public health officials who rose to power in any circumstance can be counted on one hand, if there are any. Contrast that with former religious officials, or former business executives, or former college presidents, and you begin to see reality. WHO is not populated with people who wish to take over the world á la Pinky and the Brain. WHO does not answer to people who resemble Pinky or the Brain in any way, either.
You may review the first (and most worrisome) draft of the Model State Emergency Health Powers Act in .pdf here. Note carefully the strong defense of the rights of individuals recognized in the preamble to the draft bill. The 2003 version of the Model Act can be reviewed at Alaska’s site; you can also find a section-by-section analysis and other explanatory material.
This document tracks state legislative actions so far – I dare anyone to find the trampling of civil rights and lunatic claims made at the websites listed above. If you do find troubling actions, please note them in comments here. Note well that the documents in the previous three links are maintained by officials at the State of Alaska — Sarah Palin’s appointees and public health team. It’s unlikely that Sarah Palin would be involved in a massive, international conspiracy to imprison millions of citizens just because they are not immune to influenza. Of course, maybe you know Palin better than I do and you think she’s a megalomaniac just looking for her chance to play Mussolini in America — but I doubt it.
U.S. Centers for Disease Control (CDC) are deeply involved in preparations for influenza outbreaks, and swine flu is no exception. CDC features a page showing international preparations for swine flu; note that plans to round up recalcitrant non-inoculants for execution are not in the program. From that page you can get to the WHO page on international preparations, and there you can link to to international health regulations on the issue. WHO’s “edict” so far:
Concerning public health measures, in line with the Regulations the Director-General is recommending, on the advice of the Committee, that all countries intensify surveillance for unusual outbreaks of influenza-like illness and severe pneumonia.
That’s it.
There is an Emergency Committee set up to deal with H1N1 specifically. The group has met four times; here is the report from the fourth meeting, in June:
11 June 2009
DG Statement following the meeting of the Emergency Committee
The Emergency Committee held its fourth meeting on 11th June 2009.
The Committee considered available information on transmission of New influenza A (H1N1) in a number of locations in countries in different regions of the World Health Organization, and concluded that the criteria for a pandemic have been met.
Following the advice from the Committee the WHO Director-General decided to raise the level of influenza pandemic alert from the current phase 5 to phase 6. At this early stage, the pandemic can be characterized globally as being moderate in severity.
As previously recommended by the Director-General, countries should not close borders or restrict international traffic and trade.
Countries should assess their specific situation and make a timely transition from focusing national efforts on containment to focusing on mitigation measures, including appropriate non-pharmaceutical interventions.
WHO remains in close dialogue with influenza vaccine manufacturers. It is understood that production of vaccines for seasonal influenza will be completed soon, and that full capacity will be available to ensure the largest possible supply of pandemic vaccine in the months to come.
You can see that the paranoia reflected in the sites on the Wall of Shame, is unwarranted.
Coda: You gotta love the guys who quickly see a way to make a buck on this fear. Here’s a guy who will sell you a “smartroom” decontamination unit to retrofit any room in your home to make you safe from swine flu — just $1,899! Crazy with dollar signs in his dreams.
The SmartRoom is designed to protect you and your family from all viruses and bacteria. It can be quickly and easily installed. The SmartRoom is lightweight, compact and is totally collapsible for storage.
The SmartRoom features an Ultraviolet Biological Airlock that you attach to any room entry in your home or office. The Smartroom Tri Filter Biological Filtration Unit creates a Biological Saferoom under positive air pressure or a Quarantine Room under negative air pressure.
If it were only so easy to protect from swine flu. If only it were so easy to protect ourselves from the conspiracy crazies.
Update, August 11, 2009: More than 19,000 tinfoil hatters (TFH) have signed a petition against WHO’s imagined mandatory vaccine campaign. Sign a petition against a problem that doesn’t exist!
Update, September 12, 2009: See this debunking of pseudoscience anti-vaccine claims at Respectful Insolence.
Friends don’t let friends be hoaxed: Don’t be fooled! Share the news.
If all one has to do is refuse a vaccine, why do you advocate violence against people who save lives?
The last comment is one more indication of the astounding insanity among anti-vaxxers.
While OTHERs still continues blah blah blah …
… now is running the second counter-attack.
See:
http://www.spkpfh.de/Criminal_charges_against_WHO_henchmen_2.htm
THIS CONTINUATION OF THE CRIMINAL COMPLAINT AGAINST THE WHO HENCHMEN, TOO, MAY BE SENT TO THE PUBLIC PROSECUTOR’S OFFICE IN BERLIN BY EVERYBODY.
If you see a doctor
Knock him down at once!
Tony, you called public health officials “marxists,” back on April 5. Here’s your exact quote: “You Marxist elites will fail with your agenda. The only proof that this vaccine has- is its toxins. last I checked, Toxins are bad for you.”
And for certain it was you who introduced the Bilderberger issue.
You’ve constantly made wild, false and malicious claims against good scientists who work to protect our health. You’ve made vicious attacks on some of the most beneficial organizations in U.S. government. You’ve introduced some of the greatest squirrel arguments in modern politics.
And then you accuse others of your misdeeds?
Is there enough coffee in the world to wake you up?
Nick any opposition to something you have no control over yourself, is never a “credible source” in a liberal marxist eyes like yourself. Also, I’m not a left wing or right wing person. I’m just a citizen thats sick of the bullshit from both sides. As for Ed, I did not mention anything about Karl Marx, you did. The comments I made about Marxisum was used as examples to earlier posts. You guys, or guy, gal, whatever, are nuts. So play like your god and nick pick this post, then move on to play with some zombies heads, and do all the thinking for them, I dont care. You don’t fool me anyway, so I’m done with you.
Tony, that isn’t a credible source. would you like to come up with a credible source instead of a blog?
Oh and don’t toss around the term “marxist.” Unless of course you want to be labeled fascist or Nazi just because you’re right wing.
Don’t use terms you don’t understand.
This just gets richer and richer.
So, it’s news to you that “Marxist” suggests Karl Marx? What, you thought Marxists were followers of Groucho, or Harpo?
You hurl “marxist” as an epithet, then deny doing it, and then when your post is pointed out to you, you claim that it’s not the same as Karl Marx?
Let me guess: You also want Obama to keep government’s stinkin’ fingers out of your Medicare, right?
Or was that just a threat?
Is this why I wont win the fight Ed?
WHO Appoints H1N1 Cover-Up Committee
http://www.corbettreport.com/articles/20100413_who_coverup.htm
Hmmm from what I see below it was you that said Karl Marx. I didnt say a word about that person
Here’s the first mention of “Marxist” in this thread, Tony. Who made that mention?
Don’t pick fights you can’t win, please.
Sorry to hear all your mirrors broke.
Bankers rarely are Marxists. Marxism isn’t what you think it is.
I appear to be a “leftist marxist liberal” only to right wing fascist crazies. Don’t self-label yourself, please.
misspelled societies
Oh, and Obama is helping to kill this nation. he just picked up from where the last president left off, just like all the rest of them in the past, all the way back to Washington. If you know anything about secret sociaties then you know why. but shhhh never let the masses know the truth, huh Ed. the republicans and the democrats are really on the same side. The governmnent has been trying to take complete control over this country since it was first founded. This nation is a republic by the way. There “was” a constitution put in place to give the government a set of rules of what they can and cant do. and since then, the people who swore an oath to it, to protect it, has just ignored that it was even there.The healthcare reform is unconstitional. Here is an example of one of our leaders who doesnt even know anything about the constitution that he swore an oath to.
http://www.infowars.com/bush-was-right-the-constitution-is-just-a-g-d-piece-of-paper/
by the way, I havent even mentioned a word about Marx. You did.
I also suspected you to be a leftist marxist liberal, and from your answers I’m right. of course you will deny it though, thats what you guys do when opposition confronts you. The best you can do is call people names. other than that, you cant get anything right. lmao
We blundered over swine flu, admit health chiefs
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1265530/We-blundered-swine-flu-admit-health-chiefs.html
I had hoped you’d realize your figures were wrong. What is it you have against just getting your facts straight?
Get the facts on H1N1 flu and flu deaths:
Just under 8,000 deaths a year to all NSAIDs, compared to 8,500 to 17,500 deaths in the last year from H1N1. Don’t fudge the numbers, please.
Good news. Good news made possible by quick action by thousands of public health officials, and pharmaceutical manufacturers. They are not non-profits, you know. (Well, considering your confusion about Marxism and the Bilderberg group — do you know what “profit” means, and why it’s important in a free world?)
What makes you think everyone would get the vaccine? There will always be Know-Nothings — much like your stand here — who will find some reason to avoid vaccination. Then there are Christian Scientists, who are religiously opposed.
Yeah, we’re protected. Now. No one I know who died deserved to die. They were not pleasant deaths. Your lack of concern and lack of common compassion is pathological.
That declaration empowers the Secretary of Health and Human Services to ::gasp!:: help set up emergency clinics with hospitals! Your attempt to paint that as something sinister reveals much about your ulterior motives.
The declaration granted temporary authority, for so long as the public health emergency for H1N1 existed. Does that emergency still exist? Under the law, Sec. Sebelius has authority to declare an emergency for 90 days only. Eventually these things expire, usually when the threat subsides. Given the astounding, life-threatening nature of this virus to mutate to resist other treatments, do you think no emergency should exist? Without vaccines, this virus could — emphasize “could” — quickly mutate to a massive killer with little anyone could do. Previously you’ve expressed little concern over the way the virus turns immune systems against its victims, killing healthy people quickly. On what basis do you wish to condemn a few thousands kids to death, especially since saving their lives is simple, easy, and cheap?
Surely you’re not going to claim this is some evil conspiracy, are you? The idea of anyone trying to get world domination by fighting flu is laughable, except to the extent that you might frustrate the fighting of the flu.
Whose side are you on, anyway?
Much better than the previous eight years, yes. He’s rescued our economy from certain death, he’s making astounding strides to effect nuclear disarmament and stop proliferation, he’s set us on the right track in Iraq, he’s moved to clean up several environmental messes, he’s concerned about protecting workers from the ravages of economic storms . . . on almost every front, he’s doing great, much better than the previous “figure head.” As of January 14, 91 promises kept, good progress on 33 more — and that was before the health reform bill passed into law. As of right now it’s 108 promises kept, 34 compromised, 257 in the works, and 19 broken.
Why do you hate our nation so?
My analysis stands. You appear to think Marx proposed world domination, when he didn’t. You’re confusing Marxism with Soviet-style communism (have you heard? The Soviet Union ceased to exist at midnight, December 31, 1991 . . .). By your standards, George W. Bush also proposed “world domination” for democracy, which of course is somewhat contrary to the government we have in the U.S., which is a democratic republic. If you’re going to play fast and loose with such terms, you can’t be taken seriously.
The bankers and financiers who were originally part of the Bilderberger group, and who now occasionally meet, cannot be confused with Marxists by anyone who knows anything about Marxism and capitalism.
You appear to be completely ignorant of the origins of the Bilderberg meetings, in 1954 — to support the U.S. in our fight against communism. How can you be so clueless?
Which of those goals to you oppose? You prefer nuclear terrorism? You think we should let down our guard against cyber terrorists? You think we should ignore Africa, or Russia? You’re opposed to free trade?
Again I wonder, whose side are you on?
Swine Flu A Dud—Unless You’re Big Pharma
http://www.personalliberty.com/personal-liberty-articles/swine-flu-a-dudunless-youre-big-pharma/
OMG, it’s the H1N1, aka Swine Flu!!!!!!
http://www.breakdownofamerica.com/2009/08/02/omg-its-the-h1ni-aka-swine-flu/comment-page-1/
H1N1 a ‘dud’ pandemic, Ont. health official says
http://www.cbc.ca/health/story/2009/11/12/h1n1-vaccine-costs.html#ixzz0kxpOe2CW
H1N1- Swine Flu: A Post Mortem
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=17537
Only 1 in 4 Americans Got H1N1 Vaccine
http://www.healthfinder.gov/news/newsstory.aspx?docID=637638
nope, I dont see bodies filling the streets. maybe this fall it will happen?
Ed, if your whole family was vaccinated, then why worry about anybody else getting the vaccine? Your protected right? You could sit in a room filled with hundreds of infected people and not get the h1n1 flu yourself…Why would everyone have to get the vaccine?
or this one
Do Not Take The H1N1 Swine Flu Vaccine Until You Read These Tragic Real Life Vaccine Horror Stories
http://go2.wordpress.com/?id=725X1342&site=timpanogos.wordpress.com&url=http%3A%2F%2Fthebirdflupandemic.com%2Farchives%2Fdo-not-take-the-h1n1-swine-flu-vaccine-until-you-read-these-tragic-real-life-vaccine-horror-stories&sref=http%3A%2F%2Ftimpanogos.wordpress.com%2F2009%2F08%2F09%2Fno-who-is-not-taking-over-the-world-with-swine-flu-scares%2F%23comment-97454
I also found this
Boy nearly dies after getting H1N1 vaccine
http://www.kttc.com/global/Story.asp?s=11472916
China Investigates Deaths After Swine Flu Shot
http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1939575,00.html
Quebec man dies after taking H1N1 vaccine
http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/282399
You get the idea, the list can go on. Anyway, Why wont the creators of the vaccine get the shot, but its ok for the public?
http://atomicnewsreview.org/2009/08/28/vaccine-creators-refuse-to-take-h1n1-vaccine/
You forgot to comment on this one…
Aspirin kills 400% more people than H1N1 swine flu
http://go2.wordpress.com/?id=725X1342&site=timpanogos.wordpress.com&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.naturalnews.com%2F027548_swine_flu_vaccines_death_risk.html&sref=http%3A%2F%2Ftimpanogos.wordpress.com%2F2009%2F08%2F09%2Fno-who-is-not-taking-over-the-world-with-swine-flu-scares%2F%23comment-97454
Ed, do you think this country should still be under a national emergency because of the h1n1 swine flu?
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33459423/
Do you think the “figure head” Obama is doing a good job with this country, and do you think he is taking this country in the right direction?
p.s. the link I posted about the Bilderberg group was just a link that I posted. I didnt even say anything after I posted the link. However, I did say in an earlier post that the Bilderberg group has the same ideologies as marxism. One example would be world domination.
No. Where do you come up with such bizarre scenarios?
Tony, there was a young boy in one of the neighboring towns who contracted H1N1. Perfectly healthy young boy.
He was dead within a week after contracting H1N1. I’d like to see you tell your nonsense to the parents of that boy. But I don’t think you’d get out of such an incident with your hide intact.
And Karl Marx gets in there exactly where? This is dubious history at the very, very best — but it’s crazy when you use it to suggest these guys are socialists. You don’t really have a good grasp of what socialism, communism, Marxism, capitalism and free enterprise are, it appears to me.
Bankers and princes generally avoid socialism like a plague. Of course, you appear not to understand plagues and why or how they are avoided, either. Oy.
But not from the vaccine, and not from H1N1 if the vaccine had time to build immunity.
Were the numbers really thousands? You don’t cite any credible source (this “naturalnews” is loaded with woo and crank science, and crank history so far as that goes).
I missed all influenza so far this year. For a couple of weeks my class attendance hovered at about 50% as unvaccinated kids around me fell like chloroformed flies. Unvaccinated teachers got it, too.
I didn’t, yet I’m physically prone to catching such viruses early and hard. How do you explain that?
How do you explain that so few of these deaths were reported to CDC? These people, angry over unjust deaths, don’t care enough to warn others?
Fie on your bogus claims.
You would do well to look up the meaning of “pandemic.” You seem to think it means millions must die, when it means an infectious disease spreading rapidly.
Neither CDC nor I can be responsible for your failure to understand the English language.
Pretty poor story, especially for the Post. They’ve confused the meaning of the word “pandemic” as badly as you did.
You were not alive in 2008, apparently, when H1N1 swept through Mexico quickly killing a few thousands of people, and shutting down tourism and other commerce in Mexico for several weeks. You appear not to comprehend what flu does when it’s not fought.
You appear to have completely missed the history lessons carried out in newspapers around the world about past flu pandemics. And especially, you missed the stories that told how vaccines could stop the death toll of pandemics.
We had — still have — an H1N1 flu pandemic. You claim that too few people have died (a bizarre claim). I would point to that death toll and note that it is testament to the success of the CDC’s and NIH’s efforts to educate, innovate, develop vaccines and vaccinate quickly. It’s testament to public health officials making the right decisions more often than not.
And it’s also a story about how we deal with what we don’t know. No one knows how virulent a new strain of influenza will be, until the post mortem. Then, of course, it’s too late for those who died.
Very few people die from typhoid anymore, but that’s not a license for you to spread disinformation that chlorination of drinking water doesn’t work and that all city water companies are corrupt and stupid. That’s an analogy to what you’re saying about flu.
I survived more than 100 exposures to H1N1 this year without contracting it. I survived nearly 1,000 exposures to other flu that we aren’t sure was H1N1.
But friends of ours lost their 19-year-old daughter, healthy, vibrant girl who died within 14 days of contracting it. At UT-Dallas, there were several cases, and as our son, then a student there, noted, it demonstrated that the virus was deadly because of the way it turns a healthy immune system on the victim of the disease. A well-working immune system can kill you when it turns. That’s what H1N1 does.
You may find it a conspiracy. You should volunteer to spend some time helping out in the emergency room, or in your county public health clinic. Seeing the real world might change your views.
Ed, if a true H1N1 SWINE FLU pandemic was to ever break out, and lets say a billion people died from the flu. Do you think people should be forced to get the h1n1 vaccine even if its against their wishes, religion etc.? Yes or No?
Aspirin kills 400% more people than H1N1 swine flu
http://www.naturalnews.com/027548_swine_flu_vaccines_death_risk.html
Do Not Take The H1N1 Swine Flu Vaccine Until You Read These Tragic Real Life Vaccine Horror Stories
http://thebirdflupandemic.com/archives/do-not-take-the-h1n1-swine-flu-vaccine-until-you-read-these-tragic-real-life-vaccine-horror-stories
Reports of Adverse Reactions To
The H1N1 Vaccine Are Pouring In
http://preventdisease.com/news/09/111709_reports_adverse_reactions_h1n1.shtml
Thousands of Americans died from H1N1 even after receiving vaccine shots
http://www.naturalnews.com/027956_H1N1_vaccine_CDC.html
The h1n1 swine flu did not even become the holocaust pandemic that the elites tried to scare people into believeing.
Washington Post: Government May Have to Waste Millions of H1N1 Vaccines
http://www.businessandmedia.org/printer/2010/20100401171013.aspx
Origins of the Bilderberg meetings
http://thebiggestsecret.online.fr/secret_societies/bilderberg_origins.htm
Tony, CDC is a government agency. Sure they are as corrupt as our government — which is relatively uncorrupt and in many cases in CDC areas, uncorruptible.
Almost all of them unvaccinated against H1N1. CDC doesn’t track that statistic carefully, but it’s available from states.
I can’t tell if you really think you have good information from these cranks you cite, or if you know you’re citing dangerously inaccurate stuff.
That video you posted, for example, the guy in it notes that the proximate cause of death in most H1N1 cases is the pneumonia that occurs from H1N1. He pretends that the pneumonia is unrelated to H1N1, when it’s caused by the H1N1.
Why pneumonia? Among other things, H1N1 is so deadly because it turns a victim’s immune system on the victim. Such turns often show up in lung infections. That the proximate cause of death is pneumonia, of a particular sort that is caused by H1N1, is a tell-tale sign of H1N1 damage.
So the H1N1-caused pneumonia kills? No kidding. Why are you trying to cover that up? Why is that guy acting as if it’s not true?
Yes, of course CDC updates its reports. You should get those updates from CDC, not from some truth-twister website. See the button above, the one with the school bus on it? Click on it. Get some real, accurate information.
Yeah, sorta like Ben Franklin was really a Tory, and George Washington proposed to abolish the Constitution.
Are you just seriously malinformed? What part of anything the Bilderberg group works on has even a passing, tangential relation to the philosophies of Marxism, past or present?
No, CDC doesn’t say that. It’s rather a tell that the site you link to doesn’t link to any CDC document at all. Health insurance coverage is not under the direction of CDC — it’s far, far outside CDC’s work.
Moreover, such a policy would be a violation of the Hill-Burton Act, which was not repealed by the current health care act. Moreover, such a policy has been held by the courts to be a violation of the First Amendment rights of several groups, like Christian Scientists. See here for a story about what the health care bill really does, indicating among other things that Congress is fully cognizant of the rights of Christian Scientists (whether anyone else agrees with the CS faith or not):
http://articles.latimes.com/2009/nov/03/nation/na-health-religion3
Here’s a link to the text of the health care bill. I dare you to find any language in there that says people will be denied health care if their jabs are not up to date:
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h111-3590
The Bilderberg group does have the same ideologies as Marxist though
Ed I didnt even mention anything about John D. Rocekfeller, Jr. I was just using the bilderberg group as an Example of corruption. I intended the Marxists comments as a seperate example. also, the line “Its obvious that you, the cdc, government, or the WHO can prove that one size fits all with this vaccine and that it will ‘PREVENT’ (emphasis added) people from getting the flu.” is supposed to read: Its obvious that you, the cdc, government, or the WHO can’t prove that one size fits all with this vaccine and that it will ‘PREVENT’ (emphasis added) people from getting the flu. It should say “cant prove”, not the word “can”.
The point of the links below is to show that the CDC is just as corrupt as our government.
Jan. 10, 2010 The Center for Disease Contact and Proliferation has issued an Updated on the Swine Flu cases in 2010.
http://www.politicolnews.com/cdc-h1n1-flu/
Thousands of Americans died from H1N1 even after receiving vaccine shots
http://www.naturalnews.com/027956_H1N1_vaccine_CDC.html
http://www.youronlineinsurance.com/health-
insurance/will-fed-governments-proposed-mandatory-health-insurance-work-141/#comment-9
Copy and paste that link. it didnt post right on this page. Also, the H1N1 vaccine will NOT PREVENT you from getting the swine flu. there is NO scientific proof of that.
The Federal Government’s proposed mandatory health insurance will mean mandatory vaccinations/immunizations. The Center for Disease Control (CDC) says that for anyone who refuses to keep up-to-date vaccinations, under the new health reform, you will not be able to obtain any health care you may need until immunizations are current.
http://www.youronlineinsurance.com/health-insurance/will-fed-governments-proposed-mandatory-health-insurance-work-141/#comment-9
1. No one is forced to get any vaccine under the new health care reform bill.
2. Bilderberg group is opposite of Marxists, a policy subtlety that appears to have slipped the grasp of too many. John D. Rocekfeller, Jr., was not a Marxist. No Marxist would kowtow to Rockefeller, and vice versa. Consequently, claiming the Bilderberg group to be Marxist is a bit like claiming al Queada as a front for the Jewish Defense League.
3. You may be right. Your disease may not be preventable or treatable with vaccine. But then, your problem isn’t just flu.
The CDC is right in there with “the powers that be” Bilderberg group for example. Helping them with wealth, power and control over the masses using The h1n1 vaccine as one way of doing so. The NEW h1n1 vaccine and virus is different from the vaccine and virus from the 70′s, so the new vaccine has not been tested that long. Its obvious that you, the cdc, government, or the WHO can prove that one size fits all with this vaccine and that it will ‘PREVENT’ (emphasis added) people from getting the flu. The New healthcare reform law even forces people to get this vaccine. read the bill if you dont believe me.
http://democrats.senate.gov/reform/patient-protection-affordable-care-act.pdf
You Marxist elites will fail with your agenda. The only proof that this vaccine has- is its toxins. last I checked, Toxins are bad for you.
Certainly the good people at CDC care more about my family than neo-faux-Luddite philosophers. I know and have worked with many of the people at CDC. They do good work and our general good health is testament to that good work.
But if one wishes to think for one’s self, or think at all, CDC provides information and data to think with. Better to think with what is given than be unjustifiably and dangerously gullible toward false claims.
Except for several thousands of people who are aren’t waking up at all — dead from swine flu.
If you really doubt CDC, spend a year not washing your hands, see how that improves your health. Go live among the infectious without vaccines at all; let us know, if you can, how that works for you.
So, you don’t have a clue what a Phase III study is or how long it would take to do it, or why the study as described in this case might be inappropriate.
An hour to conduct thousands of Phase III studies? You’re asking for magic, not science.
It’s easier to sucker in people who don’t understand medicine. Sometimes the tough stuff is best left to experts — this appears to be one of those times.
Because the flu vaccine is well tested over these past 40 years, so further phase IIIs on the vaccine production methods and efficacy would be a waste of time; because in a rapidly moving, very contagious and potentially fatal affliction like H1N1, you condemn to death thousands of people before the trials are done. Because it’s not necessary and it kills people.
You might look at the epidemiological data that shows the vaccine stops the spread of the disease in a population — a rather potent and ultimate test of efficacy.
The question is, why don’t you accept standard tests that show the vaccine works? If you’re a Holocaust denier and wish to deny all evidence, that’s one thing; it’s quite another to be similarly politically insane on a health care issue.
I called NIH and got the flu expert. I read the studies published in PLOS and freely available from Pub-Med. I read the studies.
Why aren’t you convinced by information?
Ed, did you read the info that site offered, it states it would only take one hour to prove it. how is that beyond what any rational national health system would impose? and sence you seem to think that anyone opposed to the vaccine is wrong, then what would it take to prove the vaccine prevents the flu? and I dont mean what the cdc, or the who would come up with. I mean you. what would it take to prove it scientifically to you?
Ed Darrell Says: Tony, I’ve asked that site to offer proof they’ve got the prize. I’ll wager the question never shows up on their site.
Really Ed. I’ll ask them the same question and see what happens.
Ed, go back to sleep now, the government, cdc, and the WHO will take care of everything for you. They care deeply about you and your family like they are their own. You dont even have to think for yourself, they will take care of that also. They always know whats best for you, you dont. Your not fooling anyone bub, like man made global warming, and you, the vaccine is a fraud. People are waking up and there’s not a damn thing you can do about it.
Tony, I’ve asked that site to offer proof they’ve got the prize. I’ll wager the question never shows up on their site.
It’s a hoax site, probably by even neo-er neo-Nazis. What in the world would make anyone think they have any money to give away?
It’s a hoax sweepstakes. They impose test requirements far beyond what any rational national health system would impose, hoping that they can fool people like you into thinking there is no scientific evidence that the stuff works.
You know, there’s a lot of stuff we can’t prove. You can’t “prove” there are such things as atoms, especially if I require you to provide photographs of them. No one has ever seen an atom — they’re too small. We have, at best, photos of their shadows. There are lots of other proofs, but were anyone to offer a prize for “proof of atoms by photographs,” the prize would go uncollected. For you, I suppose, that would be evidence enough that atoms don’t exist.
Or gravity. No one’s ever seen gravity in action directly. We have only indirect measures of gravity’s effects. So, can you prove gravity exists? If I ask you to prove it with direct detection of gravitons, you’d be completely unable to do so, regardless what reward is offered.
By those standards, then, do you conclude that gravity doesn’t exist?
Why do you offer such hoax tests of H1N1′s effectiveness? Were your daughter’s life dependent on such a quack claim, you’d roll the dice?
That’s exactly how Willis Carto hoped to disprove the Holocaust — no matter what evidence anyone presented, he’d say “not good enough.”
Why do you reject the clinical studies that show all flu shots work? Why do you reject the CDC-noted studies that show the H1N1 vaccine reduced the incidence of the disease exactly as predicted, and that in the absence of the vaccine, H1N1 spread exactly as it would spread without an effective vaccine?
It’s not good enough to point to the proofs of effectiveness of the vaccines and claim you don’t think they do what they do, especially if you’re not Jonas Salk. You’ve got to provide counter studies that show these studies don’t work.
Here, get some real expert opinion on odd views:
http://scienceblogs.com/ethicsandscience/2010/01/in_which_the_school_newspapers.php
And see here:
http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2009/10/when_methodolatry_strikes_over_h1n1_influenza.php
And don’t miss the stuff almost precisely under your nose:
http://timpanogos.wordpress.com/2009/08/09/no-who-is-not-taking-over-the-world-with-swine-flu-scares/#comment-94502
P.S. if you think you have the proof that the vaccine works then go to the site and claim your reward Ed. Heres the site.
http://naturalnewz.wordpress.com/2010/01/22/10000-reward-offered-for-scientific-proof-of-h1n1-vaccine-safety-and-effectiveness/
One size does NOT fit all Ed, so stop pretending that this vaccine does.
The CDC and their research contains NO scientific proof that the vaccines PREVENT the flu period. end of story, you lose.
And the reward is offered by Willis Carto and the Institute for Historical Revision, is it?
May we use you in a demonstration of the efficacy of the vaccine — you get to be the “no vaccine but exposed” group?
Google “idiots who claim there is no proof H1N1 vaccines work,” you’ll get the same hits, but maybe you’ll figure out that many of those articles instead poke fun at fools and gullibles who argue, contrary to the studies done early on and continuing, that flu vaccines don’t work.
If you’re serious, you could start with the CDC and their research that “proves” (in colloquial terms) that the vaccine against H1N1 works. See the charts near the bottom. Follow the links.
Don’t be a patsy for charlatans.
To this day, there is no scientific proof that the h1n1 swine flu vaccine prevents anyone from getting the flu. Don’t take my word for it though, just type in your search field on your browser, ” scientific proof that h1n1 swine flu vaccine prevents flu” there is even a reward for anyone that can prove it prevents people from getting the flu. here is the info.
http://naturalnewz.wordpress.com/2010/01/22/10000-reward-offered-for-scientific-proof-of-h1n1-vaccine-safety-and-effectiveness/
P.S. The only proof I can find on this vaccine, is all of the toxins it contains.
btw Nick, Nothing you or Ed says is going to fool the public into taking the vaccines. People arent as dumb as you would like them to be.
H1N1 Vaccine ingredients list
yummy
http://www.listown.com/group/h1n1-vaccine-ingredients-list-7338
Nick, you dumbass, I asked for scientific proof that the vaccines PREVENT the H1N1 Virus, and YOU havent provided any! so you shut the hell up and stop promoting a vaccine that is full of nothing but TOXINS that do NO GOOD what so ever to anyone! Now take your broke ass back to your boss and tell him that this little plan to rip off the public’s money with a joke of a vaccine is not going to work! to many people are onto your scam to have power and control over the masses. My scientific proof is all over the internet that the vaccines are more dangerous than the Virus. Type in your search field ” Dangers of the H1N1 Vaccine” You will see all the scientific proof you need. It is YOU that wants to kill off the population, NOT ME! You or Ed still have NOT provided ANY SCIENTIFIC PROOF THAT THE H1N1 VACCINE PREVENTS PEOPLE FROM GETTING THE H1N1 FLU! and your not going to BECAUSE THERE IS NO SCIENTIFIC PROOF THAT IT PREVENTS ANYTHING!
Oh and the by way angel, nothing of what you’ve said meets any burden of actual scientific proof or evidence. Next time I ask you for scientific proof or evidence either provide some or shut the hell up.
Your opinion isn’t evidence or proof, little one.
Angel writes:
Nick Kelsier Says:
Where is the scientific proof that it doesn’t, Angel?
Answer..
Your local hospital
Really? Because there hasn’t been an influx of high numbers of H1N1 patients to any of my local hospitals. And it didn’t become an epidemic or a pandemic. That would be proof that the vaccine does work, Angel.
As I told you before, Angel, you have an unreasonable expectation of perfect. Nothing man made is perfect. Not even the computer you’re sitting in front of or the house/apartment you live in.
However, little one, I can guarantee you that without the vaccine the number of cases of H1N1 would have been far far higher.
You apparently want to risk other people’s lives for your paranoia.
People should die for you why?
For studies on the effectiveness of current H1N1 vaccines:
Nov 4;302(17):1907-8. PubMed PMID: 19887666.
Safety and Immunogenicity of Trivalent Inactivated Influenza Vaccine in Infants: A Randomized Double-Blind Placebo-Controlled Study.
Englund JA, Walter E, Black S, Blatter M, Nyberg J, Ruben FL, Decker MD; the GRC28 Study Team.
From the *Department of Pediatrics, Division of Infectious Diseases, Children’s Hospital Research Institute, University of Washington, Seattle, WA; daggerDepartment of Pediatrics, Duke University Medical Center, Durham, NC; double daggerCenter for Global Child Health, Cincinnati Children’s Hospital, Cincinnati, OH; section signPrimary Physicians Research, Pittsburgh, PA; paragraph signScientific and Medical Affairs, sanofi pasteur, Swiftwater, PA; and parallelDepartment of Preventive Medicine, Vanderbilt University School of Medicine, Nashville, TN.
BACKGROUND:: Infants less than 6 months of age are at high risk for influenza disease and influenza-related complications, but no vaccine is licensed for this population. METHODS:: A double-blind, randomized, placebo-controlled trial was conducted in 1375 healthy US infants 6 to 12 weeks of age. Subjects received 2 doses of trivalent inactivated influenza vaccine (TIV, Fluzone, sanofi pasteur; N = 915) or placebo (N = 460) 1 month apart in combination with indicated concomitant vaccines. Solicited adverse events were collected for 7 days following vaccination, and unsolicited adverse events for 28 days. Hemagglutination-inhibition antibodies to all 3 vaccine strains were measured following the second TIV/placebo dose. RESULTS:: No significant differences were seen between TIV and placebo groups for any safety outcome. Fever >/=38 degrees C within 3 days of vaccination was seen in 11.2% versus 11.7% of TIV versus placebo recipients. Serious adverse events within 28 days were reported in 1.9% of TIV and 1.5% of placebo recipients. Antibody responses to childhood vaccines were similar in both groups. Increased influenza-specific antibody responses in TIV recipients compared with placebo recipients were seen against all 3 strains in TIV recipients (P /=1:40 for at least 1 vaccine strain and 49.6% for 2 strains, versus 16.4% and 0.9% in placebo-recipients. CONCLUSIONS:: TIV administered to young infants beginning at 6 to 12 weeks of age is safe and immunogenic.
PMID: 19934787 [PubMed - as supplied by publisher]
H1N1 influenza A virus-associated acute lung injury: response to combination oseltamivir and prolonged corticosteroid treatment.
Quispe-Laime AM, Bracco JD, Barberio PA, Campagne CG, Rolfo VE, Umberger R, Meduri GU.
Medical Intensive Care Unit, Dr. Leonidas Lucero Acute Municipal Hospital, Universidad Nacional del Sur, Bahia Blanca, Argentina.
PURPOSE: During the 2009 H1N1 influenza A virus pandemic, a minority of patients developed rapidly progressive pneumonia leading to acute lung injury (ALI)-acute respiratory distress syndrome (ARDS). A recent meta-analysis provides support for prolonged corticosteroid treatment in ALI-ARDS. We prospectively evaluated the response to oseltamivir and prolonged corticosteroid treatment in patients with ALI-ARDS and suspected H1N1 influenza. METHODS: From June 24 through 12 July 2009, 13 patients with suspected H1N1 pneumonia and ALI-ARDS were admitted to the intensive care unit (ICU) of a tertiary care hospital. H1N1 influenza was confirmed with real-time reverse transcriptase-polymerase chain reaction assay in eight patients. Oseltamivir and corticosteroid treatment were initiated concomitantly at ICU admission; those with severe ARDS received methylprednisolone (1 mg/kg/day), and others received hydrocortisone (300 mg/day) for a duration of 21 +/- 6 days. RESULTS: Patients with and without confirmed H1N1 influenza had similar disease severity at presentation and a comparable response to treatment. By day 7 of treatment, patients experienced a significant improvement in lung injury and multiple organ dysfunction scores (P < 0.001). Twelve patients (92%) improved lung function, were extubated, and discharged alive from the ICU. Hospital length of stay and mortality were 18.7 +/- 9.6 days and 15%, respectively. Survivors were discharged home without oxygen supplementation. CONCLUSIONS: In ARDS patients, with and without confirmed H1N1 influenza, prolonged low-to-moderate dose corticosteroid treatment was well tolerated and associated with significant improvement in lung injury and multiple organ dysfunction scores and a low hospital mortality. These findings provide the rationale for developing a randomized trial.
PMID: 19924393 [PubMed - as supplied by publisher]
A single-dose influenza A (H5N1) vaccine safe and immunogenic in adult and elderly patients – an approach to pandemic vaccine development.
Vajo Z, Wood J, Kosa L, Szilvasy I, Paragh G, Pauliny Z, Bartha K, Visontay I, Kis A, Jankovics I.
National Center for Allergy and Immunology, Budapest, Hungary (LK); National Institute for Biological Standards and Control (NIBSC), Potters Bar, Hertfordshire, UK (JW); National Center for Epidemiology, Budapest, Hungary (IV, IJ, ZP, KB); State Health Center, Budapest, Hungary (IS); National Institute of Pharmacy, Budapest, Hungary (AK); University of Debrecen, Hungary (ZV); National Internal Medicine Supervisor Office (GP).
Background: With the ongoing pandemic of influenza A (H1N1) and the threat of the high fatality rates of recent human cases of highly pathogenic H5N1 strains, there has been a considerable interest of developing pandemic vaccines. Here we report a randomized multi-center dose-finding clinical trial of a whole-virion inactivated, adjuvanted H5N1 vaccine in adult and elderly volunteers. Methods: 480 patients were randomly assigned to receive one or two doses of the vaccine of 3.5, or one dose of 6 or 12 mug. The subjects were followed for safety analysis, and serum samples were obtained to assess immunogenicity by hemagglutination inhibition and microneutralization tests. Results: The subjects developed antibody responses against the influenza A (H5N1) virus. Single doses >/=6 mug fulfilled EU and US licensing criteria for interpandemic and pandemic influenza vaccines. Except occasional injection site pain, malaise and fever, no adverse events were observed. Conclusions: We found that the present vaccine is safe and immunogenic in healthy adult and elderly subjects, requires low doses and unlike any other H5N1 vaccines, only one injection to trigger immune responses which comply with licensing criteria. A vaccine using the same methods as described in this report but based on a wild type Swine-Origin 2009 A(H1N1) influenza virus isolate from the United States, supplied by the CDC is has been developed and currently being tested by the present investigators.
PMID: 19906909 [PubMed - as supplied by publisher]
Comparative immunogenicity of recombinant influenza hemagglutinin (rHA) and trivalent inactivated vaccine (TIV) among persons >/=65 years old.
Keitel WA, Treanor JJ, El Sahly HM, Gilbert A, Meyer AL, Patriarca PA, Cox MM.
Baylor College of Medicine, Houston, TX, United States.
Alternative substrates for influenza vaccine production are needed to ensure adequate supplies. We evaluated the relative safety and immunogenicity of recombinant hemagglutinin (rHA) or trivalent inactivated vaccine (TIV) among 869 >/=65-year-old subjects in a randomized clinical trial. Virologic surveillance for influenza-like illness (ILI) was conducted during the 2006-2007 epidemic. Vaccines were well tolerated. Seroconversion rates vs. influenza A/H1N1 and H3N2 antigens were superior in the rHA group, but were inferior vs. influenza B; however, results for influenza B are confounded since the vaccine antigens were different. ILI frequencies were low and similar in both groups. Studies assessing relative immunogenicity of vaccines using identical B Ags are warranted.
PMID: 19879222 [PubMed - as supplied by publisher]
A Novel Influenza A (H1N1) Vaccine in Various Age Groups.
Zhu FC, Wang H, Fang HH, Yang JG, Lin XJ, Liang XF, Zhang XF, Pan HX, Meng FY, Hu YM, Liu WD, Li CG, Li W, Zhang X, Hu JM, Peng WB, Yang BP, Xi P, Wang HQ, Zheng JS.
From Jiangsu Provincial Center for Disease Control and Prevention, Nanjing (F.-C.Z., H.W., X.-F.Z., H.-X.P., F.-Y.M., Y.M.H., W.-D.L.); National Institute for the Control of Pharmaceuticals and Biological Products, Beijing (H.-H.F., C.-G.L., W.L., X.Z.); Taizhou Municipal Center for Disease Control and Prevention, Taizhou (J.G.Y., X.Z., J.M.H., W.B.P.); Hualan Biological Bacterin Company, Xinxiang (X.J.L., B.P.Y., P.X.); and Chinese Center for Disease Control and Prevention, Beijing (X.-F.L., H.-Q.W., J.-S.Z.) – all in China. This article (10.1056/NEJMoa0908535) was published on October 21, 2009, at NEJM.org.
BACKGROUND: There is an urgent need for a vaccine that is effective against the 2009 pandemic influenza A (H1N1) virus. METHODS: A split-virus, inactivated candidate vaccine against the 2009 H1N1 virus was manufactured, and we evaluated its safety and immunogenicity in a randomized clinical trial. Subjects were between 3 and 77 years of age, stratified into four age groups. The immunization schedule consisted of two vaccinations, 21 days apart. Subjects were injected with placebo or with vaccine, with or without alum adjuvant, at doses of 7.5 mug, 15 mug, or 30 mug. Serologic analysis was performed at baseline and on days 21 and 35. RESULTS: A total of 2200 subjects received one dose, and 2103 (95.6%) received the second dose, of vaccine or placebo. No severe adverse side effects associated with the vaccine were noted. In the nonadjuvanted-vaccine groups, injection-site or systemic reactions, most mild in nature, were noted in 5.5 to 15.9% of subjects. Among the subjects receiving 15 mug of nonadjuvanted vaccine, a hemagglutination-inhibition titer of 1:40 or more was achieved by day 21 in 74.5% of subjects between 3 and 11 years of age, 97.1% of subjects between 12 and 17 years, 97.1% of subjects between 18 and 60 years, and 79.1% of subjects 61 years of age or older; by day 35, the titer had been achieved in 98.1%, 100%, 97.1%, and 93.3% of subjects, respectively. The proportion with a titer of 1:40 or more was generally highest among the subjects receiving 30 mug of vaccine, with or without adjuvant. Vaccine without adjuvant was associated with fewer local reactions and greater immune responses than was vaccine with adjuvant. CONCLUSIONS: These data suggest that a single dose of 15 mug of hemagglutinin antigen without alum adjuvant induces a typically protective immune response in the majority of subjects between 12 and 60 years of age. Lesser immune responses were seen after a single dose of vaccine in younger and older subjects. (ClinicalTrials.gov number, NCT00975572.) Copyright 2009 Massachusetts Medical Society.
PMID: 19846844 [PubMed - as supplied by publisher]
Pandemic (H1N1) 2009 influenza: experience from the critical care unit.
Patel M, Dennis A, Flutter C, Thornton S, D’Mello O, Sherwood N.
Anaesthesia and Intensive Care, City Hospital, Birmingham, UK.
This case series details experience of critical care admissions with pandemic (H1N1) 2009 influenza from an intensive care unit in the West Midlands. We present four critically ill patients admitted with severe hypoxia. Two of the patients failed a trial of continuous positive airway pressure and all underwent controlled ventilation within 24 h of admission. Bilevel and high frequency oscillatory ventilation were the most useful modes. Our patients generally had one organ failure and were ventilator dependent for relatively short periods of time. Three of the patients made a full recovery and one required ongoing dialysis. We also discuss service planning and our response to the pandemic. We were well prepared with stocks of personal protective equipment but had to modify plans as the outbreak progressed. Our cases and discussion provide useful information for other intensive care units preparing for the predicted autumn surge of H1N1 cases.
PMID: 19825061 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
Response after One Dose of a Monovalent Influenza A (H1N1) 2009 Vaccine — Preliminary Report.
Greenberg ME, Lai MH, Hartel GF, Wichems CH, Gittleson C, Bennet J, Dawson G, Hu W, Leggio C, Washington D, Basser RL.
From Clinical Research and Development, CSL, Parkville, VIC, Australia. This article (10.1056/NEJMoa0907413) was published on September 10, 2009, at NEJM.org.
BACKGROUND: A novel influenza A (H1N1) 2009 virus is responsible for the first influenza pandemic in 41 years. A safe and effective vaccine is urgently needed. A randomized, observer-blind, parallel-group trial evaluating two doses of an inactivated, split-virus 2009 H1N1 vaccine in healthy adults between the ages of 18 and 64 years is ongoing at a single site in Australia. METHODS: This preliminary report evaluates the immunogenicity and safety of the vaccine 21 days after the first of two scheduled doses. A total of 240 subjects, equally divided into two age groups (/=50 years), were enrolled and underwent randomization to receive either 15 mug or 30 mug of hemagglutinin antigen by intramuscular injection. We measured antibody titers using hemagglutination-inhibition and microneutralization assays at baseline and 21 days after vaccination. The coprimary immunogenicity end points were the proportion of subjects with antibody titers of 1:40 or more on hemagglutination-inhibition assay, the proportion of subjects with either seroconversion or a significant increase in antibody titer, and the factor increase in the geometric mean titer. RESULTS: By day 21 after vaccination, antibody titers of 1:40 or more were observed in 116 of 120 subjects (96.7%) who received the 15-mug dose and in 112 of 120 subjects (93.3%) who received the 30-mug dose. No deaths, serious adverse events, or adverse events of special interest were reported. Local discomfort (e.g., injection-site tenderness or pain) was reported by 46.3% of subjects, and systemic symptoms (e.g., headache) by 45.0% of subjects. Nearly all events were mild to moderate in intensity. CONCLUSIONS: A single 15-mug dose of 2009 H1N1 vaccine was immunogenic in adults, with mild-to-moderate vaccine-associated reactions. (ClinicalTrials.gov number, NCT00938639.) Copyright 2009 Massachusetts Medical Society.
PMID: 19745216 [PubMed - as supplied by publisher]
Trial of Influenza A (H1N1) 2009 Monovalent MF59-Adjuvanted Vaccine — Preliminary Report.
Clark TW, Pareek M, Hoschler K, Dillon H, Nicholson KG, Groth N, Stephenson I.
From the Infectious Diseases Unit, University Hospitals Leicester and Department of Inflammation, Infection and Immunity, University of Leicester, Leicester, United Kingdom (T.W.C., M.P., H.D., K.G.N., I.S.); the Respiratory Virus Laboratory, Health Protection Agency, London (K.H.); and Novartis Vaccines and Diagnostics, Siena, Italy (N.G.). Drs. Clark and Pareek contributed equally to this article.This article (10.1056/NEJMoa0907650) was published on September 10, 2009, at NEJM.org.
BACKGROUND: The 2009 pandemic influenza A (H1N1) virus has emerged to cause the first pandemic of the 21st century. Development of effective vaccines is a public health priority. METHODS: We conducted a single-center study, involving 175 adults, 18 to 50 years of age, to test the monovalent influenza A/California/2009 (H1N1) surface-antigen vaccine, in both MF59-adjuvanted and nonadjuvanted forms. Subjects were randomly assigned to receive two intramuscular injections of vaccine containing 7.5 mug of hemagglutinin on day 0 in each arm or one injection on day 0 and the other on day 7, 14, or 21; or two 3.75-mug doses of MF59-adjuvanted vaccine, or 7.5 or 15 mug of nonadjuvanted vaccine, administered 21 days apart. Antibody responses were measured by means of hemagglutination-inhibition assay and a microneutralization assay on days 0, 14, 21, and 42 after injection of the first dose. RESULTS: Results of an interim analysis of the responses to the 7.5-mug dose of MF59-adjuvanted vaccine by days 14 and 21 are presented (data from four of the seven groups studied, for a total of 100 subjects). The most frequent local and systemic reactions were pain at the injection site and muscle aches, noted in 70% and 42% of subjects, respectively. Two subjects reported fever, with a temperature of 38 degrees C or higher, after the first dosing. Antibody titers, expressed as geometric means, were generally higher at day 14 among subjects who had received two 7.5-mug doses of the MF59-adjuvanted vaccine than among those who had received only one by this time point (P=0.04 by the hemagglutination-inhibition assay and P<0.001 by the microneutralization assay). By 21 days after vaccination with the first dose of 7.5 mug of MF59-adjuvanted vaccine, the rates of seroconversion, as measured with the use of a hemagglutination-inhibition assay and a microneutralization assay, were 76% and 92% of subjects, respectively, who had received only one dose to date (with the second dose scheduled for day 21) and 88 to 92% and 92 to 96% of subjects, respectively, who had already received both doses (P=0.11 and P=0.64, respectively). CONCLUSIONS: In preliminary analyses, the monovalent influenza A (H1N1) 2009 MF59-adjuvanted vaccine generates antibody responses likely to be associated with protection within 14 days after a single dose is administered. (ClinicalTrials.gov number, NCT00943358.) Copyright 2009 Massachusetts Medical Society.
PMID: 19745215 [PubMed - as supplied by publisher]
You think that? Our local hospital told me today they have not had any case of swine flu affecting anyone who had the vaccine. But we’ve had a lot of swine flu in our county and several deaths.
Is there a reported case of flu after receiving the vaccine? Where?
Flu Shots Are Worse Than Useless, But 99% of the Population Doesn’t Know That Yet.
http://www.drdavidwilliams.com/legacy/order/1009_do_not_get_shot_DTSLP.aspx?panelcode=BE001799&listcode=173716
angeleyeslady says:
p.s. Ed, believe it or not, alot of viruses, and bacteria end up dying on there own over time due to weather temps., time of year (like summer) and weather conditions. viruses and bacteria cannot live in certain conditions that the planet provides naturaly.
nick kelsier says:
Some do, yes. Others don’t. And you’d risk millions of people’s lives on mere chance?
answer:
you’d risk millions of people’s lives on mere chance that the h1n1 vaccine that is full of toxins would work?
nick kelsier says:
Oh and if you want to pretend that H1N1 isn’t deadly then you can explain that to the family of a little boy who died because of H1N1. And he was perfectly healthy otherwise. The family is from Corcoran Minnesota.
answer:
if you want to pretend that H1N1 vaccine isn’t deadly then you can explain that to the family of a little 21 month-old boy who died after a H1N1 vaccination
http://noworldsystem.com/2009/11/21/21-month-old-boy-dies-after-h1n1-vaccination/
H1N1 Vaccine Ingredients,
Packages’ Inserts and Warnings
http://preventdisease.com/news/09/092109_H1N1_package_inserts_warnings.shtml
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?aid=15092&context=va
Angel writes:
where is the scientific proof that the h1n1 vaccine PREVENTS people from getting the virus?
Nick Kelsier Says:
Where is the scientific proof that it doesn’t, Angel?
Answer..
Your local hospital
While Ed Darrel et al blah blah blah …
Now is running the counter-attack stage.
See for example:
http://www.spkpfh.de/Criminal_charges_against_WHO_henchmen.htm
EVERYBODY CAN SIGN AND SEND A COPY TO THE PUBLIC PROSECUTOR IN BERLIN
Don’t waste your time discussing with idiots thinking that a mass murder is not a mass murder because OTHER people survives.
If you see a doctor
Knock him down at once!
Angel writes:
p.s. Ed, believe it or not, alot of viruses, and bacteria end up dying on there own over time due to weather temps., time of year (like summer) and weather conditions. viruses and bacteria cannot live in certain conditions that the planet provides naturaly.
Some do, yes. Others don’t. And you’d risk millions of people’s lives on mere chance?
You seem to be suffering from this delusion that there is a world wide conspiracy going on with regards to vaccines. That’s preposterously insane. The sheer number of people who would have to be in on said conspiracy makes keeping that conspiracy a secret impossible. Or as the adage goes…the chances of keeping something secret is INVERSELY proportional to the number of people in on that secret.
You can suffer from delusions all you want, Angel, but kindly don’t insist that the rest of us have to live…..or die by them.
Oh and if you want to pretend that H1N1 isn’t deadly then you can explain that to the family of a little boy who died because of H1N1. And he was perfectly healthy otherwise. The family is from Corcoran Minnesota.
Come here to Minnesota, Angel, and spit on his grave. I dare you.
Angel writes:
where is the scientific proof that the h1n1 vaccine PREVENTS people from getting the virus?
Where is the scientific proof that it doesn’t, Angel?
I see. It’s a huge vacuum.
Pasteur also worked on vaccines. Without the publishing world we have today, Pasteur had to repeat all of Jenner’s work on smallpox. Rather famously, Pasteur developed a vaccine for anthrax for sheep. Pasteur was the guy who realized the theory of germs and microbes. Rabies was just one of several treatments he developed. (Today there is a rabies vaccine, but we use it chiefly on animals.)
Take a look a this lecture by Nathan Wolfe. He explains a lot about viruses, and especially HIV, and some discussion on flu if I remember correctly:
http://timpanogos.wordpress.com/2009/11/29/nathan-wolfes-jungle-search-for-viruses-video-on-ted-com-why-its-important-to-beat-h1n1-now/
where is the scientific proof that the h1n1 vaccine PREVENTS people from getting the virus?
Pasteur’s vaccine is given AFTER a person is exposed to rabies.
Pasteur’s vaccine for rabies does not PREVENT people from contracting rabies. in fact, none of the things he has done is scientific proof of anything being PREVENTED! The same is said about Edward Jenner, Polio, or Jonas Salk. You have proved nothing!
Ever heard of Pasteur? Edward Jenner? Polio? Jonas Salk?
I’m trying to figure how vast is the history and science vacuum you have to be filled. Why won’t you answer a simple question?
p.s. Ed, believe it or not, alot of viruses, and bacteria end up dying on there own over time due to weather temps., time of year (like summer) and weather conditions. viruses and bacteria cannot live in certain conditions that the planet provides naturaly.
ed, the cdc.gov website does NOT provide SCIENTIFIC PROOF that the vaccines PREVENT people from contracting the virus!
btw nick, why couldnt Youtube videos be considered evidence? what you claim about Youtube, can also be said about TV at home. alot of Youtube videos come straight from interviews, congress, media from TV etc…in fact, you get more information from youtube than the tv because the government controlled media is not allowed to show anything that the government doesnt want people to see, or learn. Im sure you already knew that though. At least for now, Youtube and the internet allows people to find more information on subjects etc. than what is put on tv. Dont worry though nick, soon the government will censor everything on the internet, just like they do on tv.
Nobody trusts what the main stream media, cdc, who, the government etc. puts out anymore. because they are proving themselves to be liers more and more everyday. the death rate is also higher than what you have found. keep looking you will see more. The cdc, who, government etc. will never admit that the vaccines causes mass death, because they wouldnt be able to get anyone to take it, and they wouldnt gain power, control, or profit. There is more and more evidence showing that these viruses and bacteria was, and is created in labs, then released as a bioweapons to gain power, control, and profit over the masses. the evidence is all over the web. keep searching and you will find it. The vaccines that is offered to people are FULL of nothing but TOXINS. Type in your search field on your browser “h1n1 vaccine ingredients” and see for yourself.
again, where is the scientific proof that vaccines PREVENT people from contracting viruses etc? why wont you answer this question?
Angelyes said:
I suppose there’s no harm in posting there, although, there’s no help, either. Frankly, that looks like a crank site to me, and to the extent people report stuff there that should be reported to the CDC instead, it keeps the regulatory agencies and people seriously investigating what to do from learning about the side effects.
Much better, report to the CDC, to the system that takes reports of adverse effects of vaccines, investigates them, compiles them, and requires vaccine manufacturers to act when safety can be improved. The VAERS, Vaccine Adverse Effect Reporting System, helps make sure that any harms from vaccines can be tracked and, perhaps, halted.
File official reports here, where the law requires all reports to be investigated and logged, so that others can be officially warned:
Oh and by the way, Angel, Youtube is not considered evidence. Considering I could post on Youtube a video that decries you as a rapist and a mass murderer you really need to learn the limitations of YouTube.
Unless of course you’re willing to say that if I posted on YouTube a video that says you’re a rapist and a mass murderer that means you are actually a rapist and a mass murderer?
Angel writes:
Nick, there is all kinds of evidence that vaccines are dangerous and you know it, and its not hard to find.
Is there some risk to vaccines? yes, Angel, there is. You are never going to have a 100% safe vaccine. But then you’re never going to have a 100% safe airplane, car, house, train, or any other piece of modern technology. In fact your computer isn’t 100% safe. It’s electrical so therefor it could up and blow up in your face. So why are you using it?
But considering that H1N1 if left unchecked would kill hundreds of thousands if not millions what risk the vaccine has is acceptable.
You, Angel, if you had your way, would doom millions to death. You would doom humanity to the ravages of every single disease and virus out there with no means to fight it.
So spare me your paranoid delusions.
H1N1 virus: 8,000 dead
H1N1 vaccine: 0 dead
See articles here:
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory?id=9124390
http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1939575,00.html
China had given more than 11 million vaccines, with two reported deaths, one definitely not linked to the vaccine, the other still pending autopsy.
2 deaths out of 11 million? That’s better than any similar population of 11 million unvaccinated.
Right. Polio just gave up and went home. Smallpox, the same — they wanted to see what was on cable tonight, so they stopped plagueing the entire planet.
See here:
http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vac-gen/imz-basics.htm
Nick, there is all kinds of evidence that vaccines are dangerous and you know it, and its not hard to find. just type in “dangers of vaccines in the search field of your browser” However, speaking of evidence, There is NO SCIENTIFIC PROOF that ANY vaccine will PREVENT anyone from getting anything! as far as a conspiracy, talk to the WHO, CDC, FDA, BAXTER inc., The government etc. about that, because they are the ones that are planning this crime against world populations to depopulate the planet. It is those people that are creating the conspiracy. Where is your scientific proof that vaccines prevent people from getting anything?
Angel, your definition of “evidence” is severely lacking.
It’s time you shut up and go find your intelligence. Because your conspiracy whacjobiness is getting tiring.
Have you suffered a side effect from the swine flu vaccine? Post your true story HERE
http://swinefluvaccinereport.com/
Ed, here are the Elites that laugh at and control you.
Ed, you dope Alex jones has more information, movies, documentaries on Bush, than he does on Obama. By the way Ed. Obama picked up where Bush left off. Watch Fall of the Republic. You might learn a thing or two Ed. You are a laughing stalk with the elites Ed. You believe everything they tell you…lol moron..
Ed wrote: “A lot of talking heads, no details. Where was Alex Jones during the Bush administration? Rip van Winkle had an excuse. What about Jones? After sleeping through 8 years, he claims to be trying to wake people up?
He needs to shake the cobwebs out and study what’s really going on.”
misspelled “decision” sorry
Krankrank, its useless to argue with Ed. he is a liberal who bows before the burger King along side of Obama. Ed thinks the government, WHO, and the CDC knows what is best for him, and he enjoys being a follower, not a leader. Ed believes the government etc. would never lie to him in order to benefit themselves. He is only pushing his bullshit onto others because he doesn’t want to be the only moron out there that believes a new world order is a good idea..He cant even provide scientific proof that Flu, or h1n1 vaccines prevent anyone from getting the flu, or h1n1. However, there is all kinds of proof showing how dangerous vaccines are. Ed wont take the time to look at that though. Bottom line, Dont listen to Ed. He is stupid, and is a liberal. Do your own research, and make your own decession’s. Fuck Ed’s opinion’s. And Ed, believe it or not, the government, WHO, CDC, etc. are lying to you. You are nothing but a number, and you along with anyone else who is stupid enough to follow the liberals, are just being laughed at by the elites who control you. Anyone who took the time to read this, do your own research, and judge for yourself what you want to do. You dont have to answer to Ed. He is a liberal moron period.
While Ed Darrel blah blah blah…
Now is running the counter-attack stage.
See for example:
http://www.spkpfh.de/Criminal_charges_against_WHO_henchmen.htm
EVERYBODY CAN SIGN AND SEND A COPY TO THE PUBLIC PROSECUTOR IN BERLIN
If you see a doctor
Knock him down at once!
Death toll from H1N1: 5,000
Death toll from H1N1 vaccine: Not far from 0
While Krank “blah, blah, blahs,” babies die.
Ed Darrell: bla bla bla.
Krank, How about I send a copy of the complaint to Berlin, but I list you as the person to be charged, for interfering with the workings of health officials, and your threat to knock down doctors?
Fair?
Discussion times are over, right? Time we start lining up to defend our nation.
I’m NOT discussing anything. I’m NOT asking anything. If anyone have any complaint about the charges against WHO, then he or she has to send it to the public prosecutor. The thing is on that level now. The discussion times are already over.
Now is running the counter-attack stage.
See for example:
http://www.spkpfh.de/Criminal_charges_against_WHO_henchmen.htm
EVERYBODY CAN SIGN AND SEND A COPY TO THE PUBLIC PROSECUTOR IN BERLIN
If you see a doctor
Knock him down at once!
I’m NOT discussing anything. I’m NOT asking anything. If anyone have any complaint about the charges against WHO, then he or she has to send it to the public prosecutor. The thing is on that level now. The discussion times are already over.
Krank, there’s a shortage of swine flu vaccine in most places. If you don’t want to get vaccinated, please give up your dose to someone who needs it.
If you’re complaining about it, I figure it’s likely you’re not on the list to get it soon anyway.
So, I repeat my offer. If you don’t want the vaccine, please volunteer to be part of the “not-vaccinated” control group. You can perform a public service instead of being just a blustering pain in the butt. Change your form to a “volunteer guinea pig form,” and your physician will thank you.
Better check your hospitalization plan before you do, if you’re in one of the target groups.
Also, check to see if you have mental health benefits. Maybe an annual check up is due.
What compulsory vaccination, Krank?
For those who realized that is a waste of time to discuss wih doctors::
The thing is on the juridical level now.
So, here what everybody CAN DO :
Pathopractice of confrontation against compulsory vaccination DOCTATORSHIP
including PDFs for printout
- Declaration of refusal to be vaccinated
- Authorization for representation / Power of Attorney (Representative in illness‘ matters)
See:
http://www.spkpfh.de/Pathopractic_of_confrontation_against_vaccination_doctatorship.htm
The WHO-swines: their German henchmen (the Robert-Koch-Institute, the Permanent Commission on Vaccination, the Paul-Ehrlich-Institute, the local public health offices) under Criminal Charges!
The one who administers and injects vaccines, makes propaganda for vaccinations, or makes organisational provisions for their implementation, commits bodily injury on a mass-scale, is a mass murderer dangerous to public safety and conducts a war of aggression against the own population. The incriminated perpetrators are to be arrested and detained in solitary confinement. There is danger of suppression of evidence.
See:
http://www.spkpfh.de/Criminal_charges_against_WHO_henchmen.htm
EVERYBODY CAN SIGN AND SEND A COPY TO THE PUBLIC PROSECUTOR IN BERLIN
The WHO-swines make the flu that does not exist
(The doctors themselves don’t want to be vaccinated. Guess why?!)
Away with the medical doctors’ health dictatorship!
See:
http://www.spkpfh.de/WHO_swines.htm
Here are some facts about the disease rather than guesses:
http://thechronicleherald.ca/Opinion/1149653.html
Good Dallas attorney dies from swine flu at age 51:
http://www.kwtx.com/home/headlines/66357152.html
Swine flu kills healthy young Canadian:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/toronto/healthy-young-teen-dies-of-swine-flu/article1339503/
5,000 deaths from swine flu already. The peak of the season is in February.
Australian video highlighting the dangers of vaccinations.
A lot of talking heads, no details. Where was Alex Jones during the Bush administration? Rip van Winkle had an excuse. What about Jones? After sleeping through 8 years, he claims to be trying to wake people up?
He needs to shake the cobwebs out and study what’s really going on.
Amazing video, describes the impending march of the corporate global oligarchy perfectly.
Justin, seriously, dude: Call your physician. You’ve been working hard at this issue. Maybe a little too hard. You could use a few days off.
EU666 Biodefense Stockpile and US666 Biodefense Stockpile
http://cryptogon.com/?p=10010
gotta go guys, keep up the good work at convencing everyone to go to their graves cheering on the way there. And remember everyone, the government loves you and would never hurt you. and as a gift, you get a H1N1 vaccine shot filled with nothing but love.
Bye Ed and Nick good luck with those executions with the vaccines.
Glaxo profits soar as drug firm charges NHS £6 for swine flu vaccine that costs £1 to make
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1201450/GlaxoSmithKline-accused-profiteering-drug-giant-charges-NHS-6-flu-vaccine-costs-1-make.html
Critics say pandemic emergency bill tramples privacy rights
http://www.tauntongazette.com/health/x1991989114/Critics-say-pandemic-emergency-bill-tramples-privacy-rights
H1N1 Swine Flu Vaccine Insert Admits It Causes Guillain-Barre Syndrome, Vasculitis, Paralysis, Anaphylactic Shock And Death
http://thebirdflupandemic.com/archives/h1n1-swine-flu-vaccine-insert-admits-it-causes-guillain-barre-syndrome-vasculitis-paralysis-anaphylactic-shock-and-death
Children Now Being Used In Tests On Unlicensed Swine Flu Vaccines
http://www.infowars.net/articles/september2009/290909Vaccines.htm
World Health Organisation Admits No Deadly Mutation of H1N1 Swine Flu
http://www.federaljack.com/?p=11634
but nevermind anything put here. its all wrong. the only website on the entire internet that is correct about everything you can think of, is on this site. Dont you get it people? Ed and Nick are Gods! everyone else except the government, Ed, and Nick, is just terroists, hoaxers, crack pots etc. You are not worth Ed or Nicks time. So just do as they say, and your life will be in their hands, not yours. But thats the way you like it dont ya.
Americans threatened with jail time, huge fines for refusing to buy health insurance, reports Mike Adams
http://www.theflucase.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=769%3Aamericans-threatened-with-jail-time-huge-fines-for-refusing-to-buy-health-insurance-reports-mike-adams&catid=1%3Alatest-news&Itemid=64&lang=en
You are about to see who is right in about 2 weeks..let the executions begin. bring on the death shots! Everyone roll them sleves up! the government would never hurt you! I promise its true! Ed and Nick says so! so it must be true! Nevermind that you lost your job, or your house because of the government stepping in and screwing the economy up even worse. and nevermind that we are in a never ending war over seas, and nevermind that the government is trying to pass more bills like cap and trade, or Obamacare that will cost us even more money, freedom, etc. Bcause the government loves you, and will never hurt you, as long as you do as they say. now be good little boys and girls and roll them sleves up, take that shot, then go pick our casket out and say thank you Satan. Oh, and by they way, dont bother asking the government, WHO, or the CDC what is in the vaccine,or if it will hurt you, because that would be Un-American of you. Now hurry along and get that shot!
Justin writes:
Ed, I believe that all vaccines is why people get sick in most cases, granted, some viruses do happen naturally.
And I believe that you, Justin, are an ignorant moron who would best serve humanity by shutting up.
now those are both beliefs…but I guarantee you that I am far more likely to be right then you are.
Vaccines we’ve had for just over 200 years, with some great understanding for about 60 years.
Viral diseases have been around since the dawn of humans.
It wasn’t vaccines that caused the Black Plague. It wasn’t vaccines that caused the 1918 influenza disaster. It wasn’t vaccines that crippled FDR (and millions of others) with polio.
Get a clue, can you?
Justin, I meant who cares whether you take the vaccine or not.
If the flu kills you, it’s one less internet troll to be educated. If it doesn’t kill you, but just makes you as ill as the flu does, you’ll learn a lot.
But Mr. B is right: You don’t know beans about viruses. Your rants are prime exhibits of disinformation, misinformation, hoax, and sheer gullibility, bundled with an unhealthy disrespect for science. The law of gravity cannot be repealed, nor can biology be commanded to do things different from what it does.
Combinations of viruses have been around at least since 1918, when a combination virus killed 50 million people world wide (conservative estimate). Have you got Google on that computer? See what you can learn.
You could start here:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/influenza/
Justin, I was about to ask you how many things (perhaps outside the realm of pure mathematics) can be proved with 100% accuracy, but then you managed in the above statement to prove 100% that you have absolutely no clue what you’re talking about. Heck, I’ve only had two biology courses in my life (Bio I my freshman year in high school, an introductory biology course my sophomore year in college), and I know more about how viruses work and why we refer to swine and bird flu (and so forth).
All apologies to Bill Shakespeare, but get thyself to an institution of learning!
Ed, I believe that all vaccines is why people get sick in most cases, granted, some viruses do happen naturally. but alot dont because they are made by man to make a profit. and the best way to get a virus to spread, is to inject people with it, so it spreads, then they can make other vaccines to fight what they already created. they can then charge states, businesses, etc. forever, to make a profit for themselves. The h1n1contains, swine, human, and bird flu. thats not possible unless it is man made. the h1n1 was created to hoax people into giving up their freedoms, money etc..
hey Nick Prove that the hoax swine flu will 100% kill me
the government spent billions on the hoax program, of course they will make people take it one way or another. they will want the money spent, put back in their pockets with profit added to it. if the government doesnt make it mandatory, states will and so will businesses. New jersey already made it mandatory forchildren. new york made it mandatory for healthcare workers. when the government infects enough people with this hoax swine flu, by injecting it into people, you will see crap on tv that claims it has mutated and the first vaccines didnt work. then they will charge these states, hospitals, businesses, etc. again for a new vaccine. this can go on for years, and make crack pots like you, Rich. at the same time, the government can bring the population down to a level that they can better control. and here is the good part, when population levels are down, resources will be available again, stocks, food, fuel, land, etc. etc. and suddenly the economy gets better because, if there is less people, its not as exspensive to run the country. and thge people left will be slaves to the government. The government will have all the money, control and power over the planet. they will control everything that you do with your lives. So line up people and take your death shot. Ed needs his money and power.
stop blaming the virus and not the vaccine. we already “survived” THE FIRST SO CALLED WAVE of swine flu. and we survived and didnt even get sick. we already must have a tollerance of the virus, if it even exists. So why screw that up, and shoot people up with an unknown juice and see what happens?
stop trying to promote the vaccines as safe when you cant prove it
lol if you dont care, then why bother with this site?
You are asking questions with my questions answer my questions with answers.
No one has claimed that you should be forced to get vaccinated, Justin. Go ahead, play the fool.
Who cares?
Justin writes:
The government isn’t going to make you take it, you nimrod. But if you get sick, then you will refrain from using any of our tax money to keep you alive? You believe crank bullshit over sound science, Justin; you want a medicine to meet a false standard knowing that if you applied that standard . . . that things have to be 100% safe for you to use it you wouldn’t even go out of your house. If you don’t take the vaccine that’s your choice . . . but kindly quit being stupid enough to quit advocating that position for others. You may choose to die, Justin, but you have no right to tell others to follow you off the cliff.
hahaha how lame, you should just keep your hogwash off the internet along with everyone else. Everyone on the planet deserves the right to make up their own minds if they want to get vaccinated or not. regardless of what you or anyone else says. I refuse to take the vaccine. its my life and I choose want to do with it. not you, the CDC, WHO, or the government can tell me otherwise. I dont believe the vaccine is safe. and If I get the virus, I still wont take it, and there is not a damn thing you can do about it.
[...] should have silenced some of the cranks, crackpots, crank scientists and hoaxters who had “warned” us that Obama was… — with some unstated fears that those inoculations would be more dangerous than the flu [...]
Justin said:
Got the research to back his claims? Oddly, I can’t find anything he’s ever done on PubMed. Why do you give this guy credence? He’s trading on arguments from authority — he has a masters degree! Fine, I’ll see your one crank masters, and raise you 2,000 Ph.D.s with publications.
Look, big Pharma ain’t no big friend of the little guy, but any company would clean up with a cure for any disease. This guy appears to have failed economics. Drug companies don’t consciously work the way he describes, and probably don’t work that way unconsciously, either. I spent ten years on Senate staff with the groups that oversee FDA and drug company rules; I’ve got more experience than Ellis does. Why don’t you take my word for it?
No vaccine is 100% effective. But 75% prevention of 100 million deaths is better than 0%. So far, the prevention programs are working much better than that.
There is no cure — that’s why prevention is so important. Do we need to go back to Viruses 101? If there were cures, we’d not bother nearly so much with prevention. Treatments exist, but they are imperfect,too — regular flu kills tens of thousands in the U.S. annually, even with treatment. You shouldn’t pretend these things are benign.
Read the news. No one ever tries to cover everyone on the planet, if for no other reason, we couldn’t possibly deliver the stuff to much of Africa, Asia and South America. Production of H1N1 has been difficult this year, and there is a shortage of the vaccine.
But herd immunity still works. Look it up.
The government doesn’t work to make a profit. Remember your high school government class? It’s still true.
More silliness:
I want to hear that the virus doesn’t spread from human to human, that it has mutated to a nearly benign version, and that the vaccines are readily available, cheap, easy to produce and so tame that they don’t even make arms sore.
Did it ever occur to you that no one likes disease?
Then all those dead Mexicans will magically spring back to life. Flu won’t really exist. It would be good news.
What sort of hallucinogens are they, or you, smoking tonight?
We get flu shots every year. Millions of us do. I’ve had relatives die of the flu, none have ever gotten seriously ill from a vaccine. In my experience, the public health officials are right.
Have you ever been in a ward with 100 kids crippled from measles? I have. Have you ever had to field the calls from widows of influenza deaths wondering how they’ll feed the family now that they’ve lost their homes? I’ve done that.
Do you distrust all of medicine on everything, or just serious infectious disease?
Then Brian Ross will have a helluvan expose on whatever network he’s on now. “60 Minutes” will do an entire program on it.
Has you ever thought what it would take to keep a hoax going on something like this? Remember that the pandemic started out in Mexico, and ruined an entire tourist year for the nation. The virus was sequenced early on, and the results are published world wide. Several thousand laboratories now can test for the virus — and they have found it. We had two kids in Texas die in the past three days from the virus.
To the parents of the dead children, this is no hoax. And shame on you for suggesting it is.
With thousands of laboratories, tens of thousands of victims, tens of thousands of health care workers, there is no way a hoax could be kept secret, or sustained. There are too many independent checks on veracity along the way.
You’ve never studied much about public health, have you.
Ernst Blofeld is fictional. So are Pinky and the Brain. What sort of mushrooms do you ingest to come up with such bizarre, impossible scenarios, just to deny the facts? Radiating all the gold in Fort Knox is a good evil scheme — can’t work in a modern economy, but soundly evil. Orbiting a nuke that could strike anywhere was a good scheme, or a powerful laser. But those are fictional.
Not even fiction writers propose that health officials try to take over the world with a hoax flu scare and forced vaccinations — especially with vaccine that won’t grow and, consequently, a severe shortage of vaccine.
If you want to write creatively, call Indiana U. Call Stanford. Get a Stegner Fellowship. Call Utah, where Stegner started out, and write a few blocks below the medical center, and do research in the medical library. But don’t try to pass off bad fiction as fact, and especially not as accurate news on health policy.
You know, people are dying with this stuff. This influenza stuff isn’t a joke. That’s why WHO and every other responsible health official in the world are working to save your sorry butt.
We have dead children here. You’re not funny.
I trust CDC, the group that saved the U.S. from malaria, more than I trust people who try to pass off bad and completely unbelievable conspiracy stories.
And you know what? Most other people feel the same.
Justin: Prove you’re not a member of a secret one world government trying to kill off significant portions of the world by spreading false accusations so that readers will avoid getting the shot, thus making them susceptible. While you’re at it, why don’t you also prove you’re not an agent of the secret lizard overlords, the Illuminati, the Freemasons, etc.?
Go on, we’ll wait for your 100% proof.
prove that viruses are not man made, and prove that this current swine flu is not man made. Prove that vaccines cannot cause you get the flu, or the swine flu. prove that the WHO, CDC, and the government is not lieing to us.
Admit it Ed, you cant prove it 100% and thats why people wont listen to you.
give me 100% proof that the vaccine prevents every person in world from catching swine flu. also give 100% proof that there is a cure for swine flu. Then give me 100% proof that the vaccine is safe with no side effects. If you can do that, I will take the shot. If not, kiss my ass, I wont take it.
Ed, did it ever come to your mind that the government, WHO, and the CDC are just telling you what you want to hear, and you are just blindly believing everything they say? What if the people you claim are hoaxers are right? What if your family listens to you and gets the shots and they all die? What if the swine flu and the vaccines are the hoax on us? What if this is a plan to bring the population down because of power, control, and greed? Just how much faith do you really want to put in government, WHO, and the CDC? Where is your proof that the vaccines will 100% protect everyone on the planet from getting the swine flu? and where is your proof that there is a 100% cure?
Where is the proof that the vaccines will prevent everyone who gets the shot from getting Swine flu? or where is the proof that there is a cure? or better yet, if its not going to be mandatory to get the shots in America, then why is the CDC and the WHO and whoever else, are trying to make enough for every person on the planet? Another thing, if the government spent billions on this vaccine program how will they make the money back with profit, unless they make it mandatory for everyone to get the shot?
check this out. click the link
Simon, I responded here:
http://timpanogos.wordpress.com/2009/09/27/cranks-refuse-to-budge-on-influenza-hoaxes/
Ed Darrel
I am a freelance writer and have heavily researched the ‘well known’ and ‘established facts’ written in my article that I posted in my previous comment.
The facts are that the H1N1 vaccine has not been safely tested. It takes years to accurately test and research the effects of a new vaccine.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1208716/Half-GPs-refuse-swine-flu-vaccine-testing-fears.html
I have posted a link above to the Mail Online a highly respected national newspaper here in Britain.
‘First, you exaggerate. Second, that outbreak and the aftereffects are very much on the minds of health officials. Guillan Barre was never linked to the vaccine, by the way. Get some facts, will you?’
This is established fact; although experts now believe that it will be more like one in one million that will contract GBS rather than one in ten thousand.
Also here is a list of dangerous substances that are in other vaccines; we can also expect similar material to be in the swine flu vaccine.
http://www.stunnedmullets.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=130:official-facts-on-vaccines&catid=78:vaccines&Itemid=141
Research has shown that there are plenty of natural preventative actions that can be taken to protect against catching flu viruses. These are a healthy organic diet, vitamins; such as vitamin D3, regular exercise and certain herbs – all of these are known to boost and strengthen the immune system.
I used to regularly take the seasonal flu vaccine before finding out the dangers of vaccines in general; on the two occasions that I did take it I ended up getting flu shortly after taking the vaccine. Since then I have not taken it and decided to go down the alternative route, which has served me very well as I have not had so much as a cold in over three years.
Since you seem so eager to poison your body with a substance which is clearly more dangerous than swine flu itself, then who am I to stand in your way. I am sorry to hear that there have been a couple of deaths where you live due to swine flu, but there are much safer alternative and natural preventative actions that can be taken. A healthy nutritionally rich diet should be first on the list before we even consider vaccines, of which there is a huge amount of evidence calling into question, their overall safety and effectiveness when fighting disease.
The problem is that the majority of western doctors are taught absolute fallacies at medical school and in some cases have been brought up to become nothing more than glorified pill prescribers.
The human immune is an extremely powerful and efficient tool when it comes to fighting disease. The reason that it is susceptible to diseases like swine flu at all is because our diets are so nutritionally poor. In many cases this is due to processed foods (filled with additives and preservatives) and poisons such as aspartame in many of our soft drinks.
http://www.naturalnews.com/026168.html
I have posted a link above to a site that lists natural preventives and explains that viruses such as swine flu cannot be contracted by a healthy well maintained immune system.
I am not a ‘crack pot’ and neither are others who show a distinct lack of trust in bodies like the WHO and companies such as Baxter, because history has taught us that they have seriously let us down in the past.
If after examining the evidence that I have provided you still believe that the vaccine is safe, then be my guest, take it, it is your right to choose, but please do not belittle with your derogatory use of humour those who do not!
The reason I talk about this information is because I want people to be safe, and nobody wants a repeat of the 1976 debacle.
If we all lived clean and healthy natural lives then there would be no need for vaccines at all. Maybe it is our social system that needs a rethink, because if you examine Amazonian tribal communities, who have had little to no contact with the outside world, you find a distinct lack of disease in these societies.
Dirty living equals disease; an unclean polluted environment equals disease; the addition of chemicals to our food, drink and drinking water equals disease; when are we going to wake up and realise that the cause of disease is not some unknown, unfortunate ‘random factor’, but the way we live our lives.
Although in the case of Baxter the cause of the so called ‘swine flu virus’ may well have been them!
Ed Darrel
I am a freelance writer and have heavily researched the ‘well known’ and ‘established facts’ written in my article that I posted in my previous comment.
The facts are that the H1N1 vaccine has not been safely tested. It takes years to accurately test and research the effects of a new vaccine.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1208716/Half-GPs-refuse-swine-flu-vaccine-testing-fears.html
I have posted a link above to the Mail Online a highly respected national newspaper here in Britain.
‘First, you exaggerate. Second, that outbreak and the aftereffects are very much on the minds of health officials. Guillan Barre was never linked to the vaccine, by the way. Get some facts, will you?’
This is established fact; although experts now believe that it will be more like one in one million that will contract GBS rather than one in ten thousand.
Also here is a list of dangerous substances that are in other vaccines; we can also expect similar material to be in the swine flu vaccine.
http://www.stunnedmullets.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=130:official-facts-on-vaccines&catid=78:vaccines&Itemid=141
Research has shown that there are plenty of natural preventative actions that can be taken to protect against catching flu viruses. These are a healthy organic diet, vitamins; such as vitamin D3, regular exercise and certain herbs – all of these are known to boost and strengthen the immune system.
I used to regularly take the seasonal flu vaccine before finding out the dangers of vaccines in general; on the two occasions that I did take it I ended up getting flu shortly after taking the vaccine. Since then I have not taken it and decided to go down the alternative route, which has served me very well as I have not had so much as a cold in over three years.
Since you seem so eager to poison your body with a substance which is clearly more dangerous than swine flu itself, then who am I to stand in your way. I am sorry to hear that there have been a couple of deaths where you live due to swine flu, but there are much safer alternative and natural preventative actions that can be taken. A healthy nutritionally rich diet should be first on the list before we even consider vaccines, of which there is a huge amount of evidence calling into question, their overall safety and effectiveness when fighting disease.
The problem is that the majority of western doctors are taught absolute fallacies at medical school and in some cases have been brought up to become nothing more than glorified pill prescribers.
The human immune system is an extremely powerful and efficient tool when it comes to fighting disease. The reason that it is susceptible to diseases like swine flu at all is because our diets are so nutritionally poor. In many cases this is due to processed foods (filled with additives and preservatives) and poisons such as aspartame in many of our soft drinks.
http://www.naturalnews.com/026168.html
I have posted a link above to a site that lists natural preventives and explains that viruses such as swine flu cannot be contracted by a healthy well maintained immune system.
I am not a ‘crack pot’ and neither are others who show a distinct lack of trust in bodies like the WHO and companies such as Baxter, because history has taught us that they have seriously let us down in the past.
If after examining the evidence that I have provided you still believe that the vaccine is safe, then be my guest, take it, it is your right to choose, but please do not belittle, with your derogatory use of humour, those who do not!
The reason I talk about this information is because I want people to be safe, and nobody wants a repeat of the 1976 debacle.
If we all lived clean and healthy natural lives then there would be no need for vaccines at all. Maybe it is our social system that needs a rethink, because if you examine Amazonian tribal communities, who have had little to no contact with the outside world, you find a distinct lack of disease in these societies.
Dirty living equals disease; an unclean polluted environment equals disease; the addition of chemicals to our food, drink and drinking water equals disease; when are we going to wake up and realise that the cause of disease is not some unknown, unfortunate ‘random factor’, but the way we live our lives.
Although in the case of Baxter the cause of the so called ‘swine flu’ may well have been them!
After reading all of this mumbo jumbo, I have come to the conclusion to NOT take the H1N1 swine flu vaccine because there is NO PROOF that ANY vaccine will prevent EVERYONE from contracting the H1N1 swine flu Virus. Vaccines are not “one size fits all” and in my opinion, that makes the H1N1 swine flu vaccine just as dangerous, if not more dangerous than the virus itself.
Simon, take a deep breath. Go get a few hours’ sleep. Calm down. (Somebody throw water in his face. He’s completely hysterical.)
Simon said:
It’s been thoroughly tested by now. Alas, there’s not enough for everyone. Britain, sorry, you’re going to have to do with barely enough to inoculate the highest at-risk populations. Simon, call your physician and tell her that you volunteer to be among the uninoculated control group.
All better now, right?
Let’s be clear: That’s pure bullshit, Simon.
Among other things, there is not enough vaccine to go around.
Tests haven’t shown problems. H1N1 kills these people in disproportionate numbers — we lost a couple of kids here in Dallas this week. Wake up, Simon. This isn’t a game.
First, you exaggerate. Second, that outbreak and the aftereffects are very much on the minds of health officials. Guillan Barre was never linked to the vaccine, by the way. Get some facts, will you?
Simon, I may get back to the rest of your rant, but please follow the links I’ve already provided above and below. You’re suffering already from Severe Disinformation Syndrome. In your case, it could be fatal.
Key way to stop the disease you have is to avoid, like the plague, anything from Jane Burgermeister.
This blogger needs a lobotomy – and quickly!!!
Swine Flu: how dangerous is it?
With a vaccine planned to inoculate the entire population of Great Britain, and possibly the world, should we be so eager to roll up our sleeves and receive a vaccine, that is not only untested, but also, in the opinion of some, unnecessary and dangerous.
The most worrying aspect of this planned vaccination is that in some countries it will be mandatory, which means that millions will potentially become guinea pigs. It has been reported that babies and pregnant woman will be among the first to receive the vaccine, meaning any side effects suffered could possibly afflict them with a lifetime of health problems.
Let us not forget the swine flu outbreak of 1976 in the United States, where millions were scare mongered into taking a vaccination that they were told was safe by the widespread national media propaganda campaign. This was abruptly brought to an end when the discovery was made that one in every 10 000 people vaccinated contracted GBS (Guillain Barre Syndrome), which can cause permanent paralysis of the entire body, and in some cases death!
In a populace of 61 million, which is roughly the population of the United Kingdom, if a similar incident occurred, then we could expect that at least 6100 people would contract GBS.
As of the 19th of August 2009 there have been only 44 deaths reported in England and five in Scotland; does this really warrant the mass distribution of a ‘rushed out’ vaccination that could potentially leave thousands afflicted with life altering side effects?
When placed in proportion to normal influenza, which kills 250 to 500 thousand people globally every year (this is with a vaccination already in place), is this less about saving people’s lives and more about making money for the international drugs industries and vaccine producers as some have speculated?
Jane Burgermeister, a freelance journalist – who recently appeared on Controversial TV’s: On the Edge – has discovered a body of evidence linking Baxter Corporation and the WHO (World Health Organisation) in a conspiracy to commit genocide – the murdering of people for profit.
Burgermeister herself has filed criminal charges in her home nation of Austria against Baxter and Avir Green Hills Biotechnology, for knowingly contaminating vats of normal seasonal influenza vaccines with avian H5N1 or ‘bird flu virus’ as it is more commonly known.
This was discovered when experimental batches of seasonal flu vaccine were sent out to 18 countries during December last year from Baxter’s Austrian subsidiary. By providence the vaccine was first tested on ferrets in the Czech Republic (during February of this year) before being shipped out to the general public: the ferrets died and the shock was discovered.
Baxter uses Biosafety level 3 regulations, which protect against accidental contamination by alternate viruses, such as bird flu; the chances that this was an accident are low.
This means that US based Baxter Corporation are implicated in a conspiracy to cause a ‘bird flu pandemic’ – with the aim of profiting from that pandemic by providing the vaccine – only weeks prior to the swine flu outbreak in Mexico, by creating a known ‘biological weapon’, which would have had a 63 percent mortality rate had it been administered to the general public – as may have been planned.
Dr Leonard Horowitz, a Harvard graduate and author of Emerging Viruses: Aids and Ebola has also highlighted Baxter Corps intentions to release a biological weapon among the general public. Furthermore he has implicated them in the recent swine flu outbreak.
Speaking at Alternative View 2, in London, on the 29th and 30th of May, Horowitz pointed out that it is Baxter Corporation who will be responsible for providing the swine flu vaccine in league with the WHO.
The question needs to be asked: why would we trust a company that is currently facing charges of conspiracy to commit mass genocide, by the known contamination of seasonal influenza inoculations, with the manufacture and distribution of the swine flu vaccine?
What also needs to be brought to question is the media’s apparent silence on this incident; for surely the planned release of a bio-weapon into the general public by an international corporation, such as Baxter, should be front page news.
What is even worse is the trust placed in vaccines by governments. According to a report on NECN in April this year, a recently passed bill in Massachusetts, which has been pending for the last couple of years, but was conveniently rushed through due to the recent swine flu outbreak, has given the state powers to fine any citizen choosing not to take the provided vaccination during a pandemic $1000 dollars, per day, and up to 30 days in prison.
The WHO also has the power during a pandemic to override human rights i.e. place people into quarantine, enforce vaccination and restrict your travel. In Austria and Switzerland the police, or even the army, can be used to force people to be vaccinated – if they refuse then they will be removed from their premises and taken to a local centre for inoculation.
Although such radical plans have not been made for those choosing not to be vaccinated in the UK, one must wonder for how long this will be the case.
With over half of doctors in Britain, as reported recently by the Daily Mail, choosing to opt out of taking the swine flu vaccine, due to lack of trials regarding its safety, it seems that millions are potentially at risk, either through lack of information or forced inoculation.
If the World Health Organisation has its way it seems that many of us will not have a choice.
If you wish to file your own case against Baxter and the WHO at your local police station, details of how to do this can be found on http://www.theflucase.com
Angel writes:
They even have created a cyber security force to combat information, hackers,
I’d be pissed if they didn’t have a cyber security force. It would be a very bad idea if a hacker got into the pentagon computers for example. or got into the computers that control the launching of the nuclear missiles.
No matter what you think, child, hackers are criminals. They are not rebels, they are not heroes, they are not Robin Hood.
And I should trust you more then the government why? What gives you or any of your fellows any g– d— expertise in the subject? Only fanatics, child, think they are always right.
Angel writes:
before you knock the fact that it is from YouTube, its on that site because the site is the number 1 site that people view.
So? Popularity doesn’t grant accuracy, truthfulness, honesty or verifiability. As the adage goes, just because 50 million people believe a foolish thing doesn’t mean it still isn’t a foolish thing.
Come up with scientifically verifiable evidence or do yourself a favor and shut up.
You keep missing the point. I criticize those sites because they say silly, insane and dangerous things. There is nothing inherently wrong with any of those sources that couldn’t be cured by honesty, accurate reporting, and serious study of the issues.
They are crank sites because they are dishonest, report things inaccurately (headaches from flu shots as a major problem of “nervous system disorders,” for example), and they avoid serious study of the issues.
Repeatedly I have linked to the reports of the scientists, to actual scientific data, to the laws in question, and to serious lawyers doing serious analysis of the laws. Repeatedly you have repeated your postings to cranks sites. Had you read the material at the sites I posted, I don’t think you could have avoided the conclusion that the sites you referred to are inaccurate and wrong. Please go back and reread the material I’ve linked.
There is no reason any valid scientific report cannot be posted here. Any claim by anyone that there are “secret” reasons they can’t talk about flu vaccine should be regarded as admission that there is no valid point to be made.
That’s a bluff. This woman is involved in litigation — there is no gag order in any of the suits, nor do I think a good judge would go along with one. Exposing the crankery of Ms. Burgermeister would be high public service.
Look at the post that starts this thread. My analysis of Burgermeister’s crank science started this out. I’ve already reviewed her sites and claims quite thoroughly.
Frankly, she’d fail a first-year journalism course. She’s dishonest in her claims. For example, at her site, she claims the European drug regulatory agency “admits” that “nervous system disorders” are common with the vaccine. That’s only partly true, and misleading as she presents it. Headaches are common, which EMEA classifies as “nervous system disorder.”
Many people get headaches with vaccines — even with placebos. EMEA requires the labeling information to indicate that vaccine recipients get headaches.
A minor headache, at the same frequency as placebo shots, is not a health problem that should be of concern.
And it’s a crude lie to claim this as a serious problem with the vaccine.
This woman is trying to scare you, and she has succeeded. You should not let the even well-meaning, crank unintentional terrorists win like that. Use your head.
I make it a practice not to poke at people who show serious delusional tendencies — but as I noted, I read her site.
She’s nuts. Look at this crackpot claim, for example. e>Obama’s going to talk about nuclear weapon non-proliferation, a key topic for our national security (think Iran and North Korea). He’s going to chair one meeting, not “take control” of the Security Council. He’s not going to take control of the world with flu vaccine — unless, of course, by doing so he could disarm the North Koreans and Iran. He’s not going to talk about flu at all, a point lost by the nutty Ms. Burgermeister (though you can confirm it with a quick Google search). But even Burgermeister isn’t crazy enough to claim real results from this thing.
Don’t be stampeded by people who can’t fold a tinfoil hat as well as you.
here is a small example of controlled media
and before you knock the fact that it is from YouTube, its on that site because the site is the number 1 site that people view. The White House even knows this, and has a site of their own.
Nick, the sites that You would consider as “credible” are influenced and controlled by the government. especially the main stream media. Thats why alternate sites are on the web, and information can be found better using the web. Why do you think the government is so worried about the internet so much? They even have created a cyber security force to combat information, hackers, etc. Just like what is happening on this site, there is an information war going on using the internet and computers.
The evidence you want to see can not be posted on this blog due to legal reasons, but you can go to Jane B’s website and contact her and ask about the evidence. (which I believe you havent even done yet). She can explain this to you better than I can. Go to http://www.theflucase.com and click on “contact me”
Angel, you’re the epitome of a 14th century person arguing to a rocket scientist that the space shuttle is a tool of the devil. You simply don’t have the actual scientific expertise, you have no evidence and all you have is a bunch of crackpot conspiracy theories.
You’re chicken little in a world that does not need chicken littles.
Ma’am, get thee over to Scienceblogs.com, and read this:
See the entire post at Respectful Insolence.
Angel, get this through your head.
Unless you have a video of the President, some member of Congress or some official with the WHO saying that they’re spiking vaccines to kill people then none of your videos even come close to being evidence.
Evidence would be if you linked to a reputable site, Angel. You didn’t. That you link to a crackpot site is nothing more then mere circular reasoning and as such isn’t valid. Evidence can be independently verified.
Oh, my. One of my responsibilities on Senate staff was to answer the letters from the crazies who claimed the income tax is illegal.
The arguments against the legal ratification of the 16th Amendment require us to believe that the legislatures in a majority of the states were and are wholly incompetent to know what they do, and that the courts and governors of all the states are accomplices in this incompetence. That’s absolutely unbelievable.
The amendment was controversial, to be sure — its ratification was rejected by five states (though Arkansas reconsidered, and passed it). But ultimately, it was passed by 38 states. 36 were required to ratify it.
Yes, I’ve heard the arguments that ratifications in several states were illegal. It’s not believable that such a controversial amendment’s ratification would not be challenged in court, especially in the courts of the relevant states, were there credible cases to be made. And yet, there have been few challenges, if any, and none successful.
All court challenges on the legitimacy of the income tax amendment in the past 50 years have been turned back by the courts. Challenges have been rejected by judges of all political stripes, including former tax protesters.
If a belief in the uncredible claim that the income tax amendment is not law, forms the foundation of your arguments, then you’re right again — it’s pointless to argue with someone so divorced from reality and the law.
You know, there are several thousands of tax attorneys in this nation. If there were a credible case to be made against the income tax, one of them would make it. Why? Because such a defense would be a windfall of billions of dollars to a company like Exxon, or hundreds of millions of dollars to a company like American Airlines, which could badly use the money. The attorney would be wealthy quick.
What is your explanation for why no attorney makes such a case? Pixie dust?
Your advocacy for that long-disproven argument gives us a glimpse into the workings of your logic, however. If you refuse to accept what 300 million other Americans accept as fact, despite there being no serious case against the fact, why shouldn’t you reject science arguments, too? Heck, think of all the money you’d save in airplane tickets if you can extend your denialism to gravity!
See Knoblauch decisions here, and here.
IRS statement on tax law challenges
You almost talk sense, and then you link to a complete crackpot site recommending its wild ravings as evidence about vaccines.
If you had any real evidence, would you know?
How many times have you recommended that crank site to us? And you wonder why I don’t give your claims much credence?
The new swine flu vaccine is turning out to be quite effective and quite safe. We might get lucky and not need it. I think it’s foolish to gamble with 50 million to 100 million lives that would be lost in a pandemic for which we had no vaccine nor treatment.
the point in posting the FBI story was to show, that yes, even within our government, there is corruption.
as far as evidence about the vaccines go to
http://www.theflucase.com
and yes guys, the evidence is there. all you have to do is look at it.
misspelled “constitution” lol, doing two things at one time, sorry
A line in the last post was supposed to read as follows…
The people thats in office thinks its for the corporation, by the corporation, and wants to decimate our constition.
leave out the word “nothing”
Nick and Ed, there is all kinds of proof, and evidence that some government officials, and organizations are willing to kill for profit, power, and control. You guys just want to ignore it, and you two might even be part of it, because you want to continue to defend an UNSAFE DANGEROUS VACCINE. And for the second time, I dont want to kill anyone! I want to save lives! And yes this country is for the people by the people. The people thats in office thinks its for the corporation, by the corporation, and wants nothing to decimate our constition.
Government should be limited, The government is not supposed to regulate and control everything in our lives. If you guys want to be under government control, then move to China. Because its not going to happen in this country.
watch this one…
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1656880303867390173&hl=en#
and this is a FBI informant about bribery etc. with current people in office
http://www.bradblog.com/?p=7374
Nick, I do not approve of Bushes policies nor Obamas policies. And I do not want to kill people. However, I do believe that the government does.
No, you do. You would have millions of people die for lack of vaccines because you want to believe this cockamamie story that vaccines are more dangerous then the diseases. You would have the death of millions on your hands, Angel, and you have no proof and no evidence to back your claims. All you have is the ramblings of your fellow whackjobs.
Angel writes:
I should rephrase my last post ” I believe that a few people working within the government want to kill people for profit, power, and control in order to benefit themselves.
And I believe that you’re a moron who has no proof, no evidence and instead of believing facts, truth and giving people the benefit of the doubt you’d rather hold onto conspiracy theories because you’ve swallowed hook line and sinker the absolutely stupid position that “government is evil, government is wrong, government never does anything right or for the benefit of the people.” All the while you’re forgetting the fact that we the people are the government.
It’s time you quit swallowing the kool aid.
There is no law in place anywhere that allows WHO to take over the government of any nation, nor even the health department of any nation.
Take off the tinfoil hat for a few moments, Vaxxers, and take a look at real problems in previous influenza campaigns — and there were a lot. GAO is the auditing arm of Congress; auditors, as you know, live to uncover such problems.
But, Angle, none of these problems include a surplus of vaccine, not even surplus for pigs (Inoculating pigs for flu? Before humans? What a quaint idea. Selling pig vaccine for humans? How illegal!), no plots from CDC to elect Jimmy Carter by sabatoging Ford’s presidency with a flu scare. This may come as a surprise to you — I fear it will — but Michael Myers-style villains don’t exist all over the place in real life, if indeed any exist anywhere at all.
Those GAO reports have plenty to worry about. But if you bother to read them, you’ll figure out that HHS and FDA are not plotting to take over government (that would more the venue of CIA and NSA), nor are they pushing ineffective vaccines in order to plump up profits for drug companies (if you knew any of these guys, you’d know that they are often cast as enemies in news stories for pretty good reasons; they are not friends, generally).
More, the GAO reports have real stories, real facts, and real stuff to worry about.
Frankly, if you wish to forego flu vaccines, no one will stop you. Again, let me suggest it for you. We need a control.
I should rephrase my last post ” I believe that a few people working within the government want to kill people for profit, power, and control in order to benefit themselves.
Nick, I do not approve of Bushes policies nor Obamas policies. And I do not want to kill people. However, I do believe that the government does.
Mr. B Please take the time to view the url’s below
ignore what you saw on TV, and be open minded and watch this
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3719259008768610598&hl=en#
obama birth certificate issue
http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=7C9E24E3330970EB&search_query=A+Question+of+Eligibility
This is a sample of what Alex Jones has on his site
http://www.infowars.com/911-commission-members-doubt-official-story/
http://www.infowars.com/charlie-sheen-requests-meeting-with-obama-over-911-cover-up/
and here is story I cant ignore (not from Alex J.)
http://www.nyccan.org/
This is just a taste of what Acorn represents
http://biggovernment.com/2009/09/10/chaos-for-glory/
Mr. B
I have not said that the WHO Plans to take over the world. You are putting words in my mouth. However, I do believe that the WHO, CDC, And a few others are part of a Eugenics de-population program using h1n1 vaccines to help spread the virus. From the articles, doctors, and legal charges against these people that I have viewed, I believe this to be the case. I will also add, that by law, a person cannot be deemed “delusional” etc. because of their religious, political , or cultural beliefs.
You can find legal actions on this case at
http://www.theflucase.com
at least take the time to look at it.
Other than this site, what do you deem as “credible”? What makes you or anyone else think that the people in our government has any good intentions toward anyone in this country, except for their own lives? Even people in office may have bad intentions to only benifit themselves. and those people do not care about this country, the constitution, or the people living in this country.
Ed, in answer to your question “A new hoax claims the World Health Organization (WHO) got a secret law passed to allow them to take over the world just as soon as they can get a few more people to catch swine flu. No, really.”
This would be a hoax because it is worded as a “secret law” However, some laws are in place that people are not aware of unless they take the time to dig for it. Also, I have not seen any articles that claim there is a “secret law”
Nick, here is a couple of sites for you…
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=109113
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.printable&pageId=109242
oops…the birth certificate answer was for Nick
Ed, I ask that all presidents show citizenship. and McCain did show his Long Form Birth certificate. Obama has not. Anyway, I have another site for you to see. here it is…http://www.whale.to/vaccines/morris_h.html
Angel, if you question Obama’s birth certificate then surely you question McCain’s right?
After all…he was born in Panama.
angeleyeslady, before we go too much further, would you verify or deny that you think this is accurate, and not hoax as I describe it?
This question says more about your extremist views than it does Ed’s own positions, angeleyes. If you believe that Alex Jones has an ounce of sense, that 9/11 was perpetrated by the government, that Obama has not fully demonstrated his eligibility for the office he now holds, that ACORN is a massive conspiracy to keep liberals in power, etc., in addition to this initial claim that the WHO is going to take over the world, then you are, to be perfectly frank, delusional. That of course could be fixed if you would allow yourself to be educated by credible sources, many of which Ed has kindly linked to in various places around this blog. (I don’t even ask that you take Ed as an expert, just that you stop taking people as such who are demonstrably wrong, such as Joseph Mercola, Mike Adams, and Alex Jones.)
Somehow, I doubt it, though.
Angel writes:
I browsed through this sites home page and I noticed that any story you found on Obama, You either praised him, or stuck up for him when he is criticized etc.
And seven to one says that when Bush was President you either praised him or stuck up for him when he was criticized.
What you want, Angel, would kill millions, tens of millions and potentially hundreds of millions. And all because you believe a bunch of crackpots over actual medical science.
I’ve never said anything remotely like that. I’ve pointed out a few hoaxes. It was H. L. Mencken who wrote the column about Millard Fillmore’s bathtub, not the American people.
Americans are the victims of hoaxes — increasingly often. That can be a tragedy, and we should all work against hoaxes.
I have focused on places where people invent fanciful falsehoods about Obama — that’s in the theme of the blog. I can see where you would be misled, since there are so many ardent, overflowing hoaxers trying to hammer Obama. I don’t invent the falsehoods, I just point ‘em out.
But I cover a range of issues. You should maybe spend a few minutes reading:
http://timpanogos.wordpress.com/2009/01/17/i-get-e-mail-from-hillarys-mom/
http://timpanogos.wordpress.com/2008/09/05/wrong-in-the-small-things/ (where I defend the founders, and to some extent, John McCain)
http://timpanogos.wordpress.com/2007/11/17/sticking-by-the-error/
http://timpanogos.wordpress.com/2007/10/17/hoax-quote-collections-quote-mining-hillary-clinton/ (where I stand up for free market economies and honesty in journalism)
http://timpanogos.wordpress.com/2007/01/26/guess-who-said-it-quote-for-the-day/ (standing up for Herbert Hoover — you may have heard of him)
You may be especially interested in good hoaxes, too:
http://timpanogos.wordpress.com/2008/12/24/remember-the-pueblo-the-crew-and-commander-bucher-and-the-great-hoaxes-of-1968/
Please do. I’m for education and lots of it. I support libraries. I support science. I support reason. I support the First Amendment and freedom of religion. Please check out some of the 2,000 or so posts here and see what I stand for. I support poetry, and art, and music.
I stand up for the flag and proper display of it. Check my posts on Flag Day, Armed Forces Day, Independence Day, and other flag-flying events. I support patriotism, and not false patriotism spewing vitriol on good Americans working to make our nation stronger.
I stand up for health care. I oppose hoaxes.
Check out especially the posts on the Scouts. Those are some of the best ones. Remember the first point of the Scout Law.
Please do check out the entire blog.
Small pamphlet. Tom Paine used pamphlets to good effect. You may have heard of him, too.
Heres a good one. any who read this and wants to try it out. Do a Google search and Type the phrase below and see what results you get back…heres the phrase..
“what’s more dangerous a vaccine or a virus?”
I’ll prove it..Ed, what do you think of Ron Paul, Alex Jones, We Are Change, 911 truthers, The first and second amendment rights, government ran healthcare, Obama’s birth certificate, Acorn, the constitution, cap and trade, Obamas policies, Van Jones, big government, etc…???? You know what all makes up a left wing extremist, lets see it from your own words…
ED, Now it all makes sense. I know why you think the majority of Americans are hoaxers. I browsed through this sites home page and I noticed that any story you found on Obama, You either praised him, or stuck up for him when he is criticized etc. ED,You are a left wing extremist! You are helping this radical, extremist administration to ruin this country! You my friend, are the BIGGEST HOAXER on the web! anyone that does’nt believe me, look at this sites home page and scroll down to see the stories.
And now we will see a “book” from good ol ED here, in response to my post….back to you ED
One link below was posted wrong heres the link
http://www.nvic.org/
At best, Governments’, institutions’, and mass-media’s campaign to vaccinate more than half of the Earth’s population against the mis-named ’swine flu’– a recombinant, already variable virus that so far is many times less lethal that ’seasonal flu’– makes no sense except as a scam to produce billions of dollars in profits for multi-national pharmaceutical corporations through the sale of vaccines that obviously endanger human health and life.
And that’s the best of intentions that can be seen in this campaign’s irrationalities, contradictions, and seeming nonsense.
At best, the campaign is intellectually corrupt and insanely irresponsible.
The worst that can be seen in the campaign is a long-calculated plan to more or less decimate the Earth’s human population through viruses and vaccines that are created in Governments’ and Corporations’ laboratories and that are then spread through mass vaccinations. The resultant pandemic and its accompanying hysteria, suffering and mass fatalities are meant to distract nations’ publics from their losses in ‘economic catastrophe’– such as is hitting working-class people now–that owe to thieving systems such as nations’ private Central Banks. The pandemic from viruses and vaccines is meant by the Ruling Few to reduce We Masses into a number and compliance that will be easily manageable under a technologically totalitarian ‘New World Order’.
We need to look into all of the above. We need to examine evidence and possibilities and immediately prepare defenses and alternatives for ourselves. We need to reject anything with Thimerasal (mercury) or Novartis’ and GlaxoSmithKline’s squalene adjuvant in it. We need to employ any or all of the many pro-active means that are listed at the end of this Primer. Love that Vitamin D! “Good day, sunshine!” “The sun is shining, …” Love that basil and love that spinach and love that asparagus! We need to arm ourselves with knowledge and alternatives and undertake our own, necessarily cooperative solutions. Many great sources of information, alternatives and resistance already exist. Three are:
http://www.%20nvic.org/ (The National Vaccination Information Center),
http://www.mercola.com/, and http://www.falseflagflu.com./. Resist and flourish.’
Go Here to read the article
http://blog.puppetgov.com/2009/09/07/a-primer-about-man-made-viruses-sickening-vaccines-and-forced-vaccinations-sickening-vaccines-and-forced-vaccinations/
60 years of safe use of flu vaccines, testing in Europe, Asia and America, and carefully tracked results in wider initial deployment — all vouch for the safety of the vaccine.
In response, you offer a certifiable nutcase and a fringe website claiming the vaccines are unsafe, sites that offer no research and third-hand hearsay, without even offering a roll of aluminum foil to refresh your hat.
Yeah, the truth will probably win, no thanks to Burgermeister or you, AEL. You’re right, it’s pointless for you to repeat, for the fifth or sixth time, that you reject reason, and to offer the same old crank sites.
Again, the truth will prevail in the end. Prove that the vaccine is safe Nick and Ed by showing everyone of YOU getting the Vaccine shots on film and post it on this site with proof of the h1n1 vaccine, and proof of a doctor injecting the vaccine into you. Other than that, I’m not going to argue with you anymore. Its pointless to, because Denial is a powerful thing, and You two are hopelessly brainwashed by the government. You two live a life of denial. Sad
As for anyone else who reads this, and wants to know why you should NOT take the vaccine. go here…
http://www.theflucase.com/
http://www.infowars.com/category/flu-pandemic/
Angel, the last time there was a swine flu epidemic upwards of a 100 million people died worldwide. To put that into perspective for you.
That is equal to a full third of the current population of the United States.
You would risk that again for what? You risk that many people, if not more, dying again just because you have an irrational hatred and paranoia when it comes to the government and the World Health Organization? And you’re not out of your mind how?
Jon Cohen, writing in ScienceInsider, an adjunct of Science Magazine.
Already answered in the affirmative. Are you going to volunteer to be in the control group for those who don’t get the vaccine and get exposed to the virus?
You’ve not established that either CDC nor WHO “can’t do their job.” That’s a scurrilous and false accusation.
In any case, the government’s done a much better job of preparing for H1N1 than you allow. We haven’t had a million deaths from the virus. With a bit more luck, we won’t. When a deadly virus like that shows up, and we are well protected, you sound silly saying that the agencies who saved your life “can’t do their jobs.”
You can argue with me any time, but it’s pointless to present quacks bearing false witness and expect me not to point out they are lying quacks. You’re right about that. I won’t roll over for false information anytime.
You haven’t read a source I’ve given, nor have you paid attention to what I’ve written here.
Knowledge shall forever govern ignorance, Madison said. Thank God CDC is on the job and not listening to Fox News’s falsehoods.
You probably think we could save Africa by poisoning it with DDT, too.
So far no one who has been vaccinated against H1N1 has contracted the disease. But “From April 15, 2009 to July 24, 2009, states reported a total of 43,771 confirmed and probable cases of novel influenza A (H1N1) infection. Of these cases reported, 5,011 people were hospitalized and 302 people died.”
302 people who we might count as having listened to you are already dead. Zero on the vaccination side.
You’re losing the disinformation war, thank God. As Franklin noted, in a fair fight, truth wins.
P.S. Nick, The vaccines are more dangerous than the flu itself
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=14869
Nick, you dont even know what you are talking about. For one, I’m not a right wing, left wing, or conservative, etc. I’m just a person who does’nt like seeing this country, or my freedoms being takien away from me or anyone else by people like yourself. I have great concern for human life or I would’nt be showing you articles etc. that warns people of what the government, WHO, CDC etc. is trying to do to this country and the planet. There is overwhelming evidence that this government is out of control, and does NOT have best interests for the people in this country, or on this planet. All they care about is power and control. And from the looks of it, they are doing a fine job with you. Again, I don’t need to show you anything, because you or Ed would just try to discredit it anyway. so whats the point. Do your own research and follow your own path, thats all I can say.
And we should trust you and ClusterFox, the mouthpiece of paranoid right wing extremist whackjobs why, Angel?
And I believe that it is you that has a hatred towards humans, Angel. You want to see humans die to hideous diseases that could have been prevented with vaccines.
I believe that Ed here has a hatred towards humans. I think all he cares about is himself and his own family. I think Ed wants the article posted below to come true. I also think he will do what it takes to make that happen. Thats why everyone who questions, or disagrees with him are “quacks”. People are waking up to the fact that the government wants total power and control of the planet, and wants to regulate everything that you do with your lives. I dont have time to try to prove everything to you Ed. nor do I have to. People should just do their own research, and act on what they believe is true etc. So Ed, go on ahead and call me all the names you want. It wont change the fact that I think you are wrong. I believe everyone has the right to live and do with thier lives what they see fit for themselves, as long as it doesnt hurt others. However, we have a government, and some corporations that think otherwise.
The Move to Depopulate the Planet
http://www.infowars.com/the-move-to-depopulate-the-planet/
P.S. If you watch Fox news, they are now showing Doctors advising against taking the vaccines due to the vaccine itself is too dangerous because of thermasil and other ingredients. Doctors are also claiming it is being rushed to the public, without enough tests being done yet. They show a segment everyday now. But I’m guessing you watch MSNBC. and everyone knows that the government loves to use that network to push propaganda. This pandemic is a money making, power grab scam, and you know it.
Are you going to take the Vaccines Ed? Do you really trust the government when they cant even do thier job’s right, nor can the CDC or WHO. And like I said before, it doesnt matter how much evidence is given to you. You are so blind and stubburn to except when you are wrong, its pointless to even argue with you. Anyone who listens to you will be taken to their deaths. And I bet when that happens, you will blame others and say they was crazy, but you will never look at yourself in the mirror and admit, it was you that was wrong.
Joseph Mercola is a major quack. You might as well cite naturalnews.com (wait, that one’s been done above by maxomus) or whale.to. Here’s only one of many examples of how unreliable Mercola is. (Yes, he seriously promotes someone who thinks cancer is caused by a fungus. Seriously.)
Pointing out quacks is public safety, not name calling. Cite some serious people who are not quacks, I won’t note that they are quacks.
Damn straight. My oldest brother suffered from polio — his entire life. I’ve seen the ravages of measles complications, the brain damage and permanent blindness and deafness. You probably claim these are imaginary afflictions? My mother and father both survived the 1918 flu pandemic. It was ugly. In my mother’s remote, rural county, entire families were wiped out. They had to wait weeks to bury the dead because so many were ill. My families’ cemeteries are filled with headstones of people who died in 1918, in several different age categories, babies, toddlers, teens, college students, young mothers, young fathers, older parents heading large clans. Many of these families limped through the Great Depression much the worse off because of those they lost to the flu. The family cemeteries have another great swelling of headstones dated 1927-1941, some dead of starvation, a few suicides, many stress from trying to make it with one-parent or no-parent families. The ravages of influenza are real. The dangers of disease are much greater than you admit. More people died from measles in 1991 than have died from all vaccines between 1970 and 2009.
How can you campaign for infectious diseases so?
You’re making nutcase demands. Prove you exist. Prove you’re not excrement of the Flying Spaghetti Monster. Prove the Invisible Pink Unicorn isn’t tapping your phone.
I want you to not get the vaccine and volunteer to be exposed. I’ll get the vaccine eventually, if there’s enough (I’m not in the target age groups), but you won’t get to see it.
The site of the Original Nutcase, Jane Burgermeister. You’ve never bothered to respond to our questions about why we should give credence to someone so obviously insane. Does your tinfoil hat keep you from hearing all arguments from all other people, or just the ones that you should hear?
I can give you chapter and verse on serious errors by WHO and CDC, on issues you’ve never dreamed of and that you won’t get to in a thousand years. But those errors are real, not political plots, not LSD-induced hallucinations.
These claims about swine flu vaccine are so far out in space there are not even wrong. They are dangerous because they promote the disease, and prevent prevention. They remind me of the pathological psychologies we studied in semiotics class years ago (with Dr. Bill Bailey — no doubt long retired).
You know, once you recognize psychological disorder, it’s easy to spot it again and again. We have a serious problem with H1N1. If we’re lucky, it will kill only a few thousand worldwide (flu kills tens of thousands annually as it is). If we’re really lucky, the vaccine will work wonderfully and protect our kids from complications and death.
In your hatred of all things rational, scientific and governmental, ma’am, you must have missed the facts. H1N1 hammered over 150,000 people in Mexico last year, out of the blue. Within two weeks, the virus had spread around the world. A few thousand died.
Among those who died, disproportionately represented were children, 2 through about 23. I have two sons in that age category, and for your sake and mine, we pray they don’t get afflicted with this disease, and that they survive.
This flu hits our future, ma’am. I’m not ready to give up hope, especially not on a case floated solely on assorted nuts.
Read what I wrote. I explained where his errors are, and I noted his irresponsibility in spreading false claims.
His comments on a blog are not the same as a juried journal. His expertise is not in viruses. His expertise is not in vaccines. It took a while to find information to indicate what sort of doctor Mercola is — he appears to be an M.D. — but I note that his business is selling unproven chemicals to people he panics. (Do you buy his stuff? If you trust him, why not?)
And had you read what I wrote, you might have noticed that I responded at great length to that claim, and I quoted extensively (completely!) from the WHO press release he misrepresented to show his errors.
Citations don’t make right. One must be accurate, and occasionally one must use some reasoning. Yes, you’ve provided a lot of links to quacks. No, they don’t make your case. No, piling on more quacks won’t make the case, either — it will just increase the quackery.
Can you respond to my last, longer post showing why Mercola is in error?
Can you guess why I regard Infowars as another quack site, on almost all issues?
CDC Uses Social Sites to Get Out Vaccine Propaganda
By Matthew Bigg
http://www.infowars.com/cdc-uses-social-sites-to-get-out-vaccine-propaganda/
More Evidence Revealing the Intentional Collusion to Create a Swine Flu Pandemic
http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/view/112398
Swine Flu Scare: It’s All about The Adjuvant!
Herb Newborg
YourSpine
http://www.yourspine.com/Chiropractic/Swine+Flu+Squalene+Adjuvant.aspx
‘Tamiflu turned my children into hallucinating, sobbing wrecks’
Richard Price
Mail Online
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-1206215/Tamiflu-turned-children-hallucinating-sobbing-wrecks.html
H1N1 Vaccine Link to Guillain-Barré Syndrome Kept from Public
Jo Macfarlane
Mail Online
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1206807/Swine-flu-jab-link-killer-nerve-disease-Leaked-letter-reveals-concern-neurologists-25-deaths-America.html
Pandemic Vaccination: Why You Should Be Concerned
Dr. A. True Ott
Global Research
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=14821
P.S. The article “WHO Admits to Releasing Pandemic Virus into Population via ‘Mock-Up’ Vaccines” was written by a Real Doctor. and the Doctors name is Dr.Mercola. and here is the story.
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2009/09/03/WHO-Admits-to-Releasing-Pandemic-Virus-into-Population-via-MockUp-Vaccines.aspx
again, more name calling. are you going to take the vaccines yourself? If so, prove you have taken it in front of everyone that reads this site. Prove it is the H1N1 Vaccines, and prove that a doctor is giving it to you. I want to see you get the vaccines. other than that, for people who are reasearching this issue. go to
http://www.theflucase.com/ or http://www.infowars.com/category/flu-pandemic/ and you wont be called names if you question government agendas or what WHO, THE CDC etc. are planning. Unlike this guy who thinks everyone else is wrong except him.
Hey, Angeleyeslady: You asked me to look at this crazy lady:
Let’s be clear: Gardasil, with 28 million people vaccinated and 32 deaths, none of which can be attributed the vaccine, is safer than watching Bill O’Reilly, safer than celebrating Labor Day with your family, much safer than boating on any lake in the U.S., 100 times safer than driving to school in the morning.
Please don’t offer material from the National Vaccine Disinformation Center and expect to maintain any credibility with me.
You’ve never studied epidemiology, vaccines, nor statistics, have you? You may need to switch to lead foil from aluminum foil.
Did you at least blush when you said “WHO admitted releasing pandemic virus into population?”
Are you alleging that WHO released a pandemic for fun? Are you alleging WHO released a pandemic for some power-mad reason? Either way, you should be ashamed for making a claim that misleads people so. If your mother knew, she’d paddle you.
Here’s the one paragraph in that WHO release, butchered by Mercola.com, that you hang your entire conspiracy wackiness on:
European agencies are generally pretty careful — one rap against them is that they are too careful, according to pharmaceutical manufacturers. So we should not assume that this is anything out of the ordinary. We must not assume that this is in any way less safe than other procedures.
The European Medicines Agency (EMEA) explains:
How is that sinister? How is that anything but good preparedness for a pandemic? What evil are you trying to imply that you cannot state clearly?
Vaccination theory is not a mystery. We’ve used this theory for more than 200 years to fight disease, and with the advent of modern medicine, the unraveling of DNA workings, and computers and super-power microscopes, the utility of vaccines and their safety have both improved a thousand times.
So is this an “admission” of something sinister? No. It’s an explanation of a process that you intentionally twist to try to make it sound sinister.
Shame on you for slandering health care workers so.
In your zeal to slander health workers, you overlooked more important, more informative parts of the WHO press release — like all the rest of it. I’ve added some highlighting to make it more clear:
Especially note what happened in 1918 — 50 million dead. That was with boat transportation of the viruses back to Australia and the Mediterranean, North Africa and Americas. Think how much faster such viruses would move today.
We have 60 years of experience in fighting influenza with vaccines. Against that, you pose a few nutjobs talking on Russian television, a total whack-job suing in Germany, and vague, scary claims about WHO procedures that you simply do not understand, probably because you prefer not to (you can’t act so scared if you do — and I suspect you get a bit of a thrill at being frightened; most people see a scary movie every year or so, others work up the same adrenaline rush fearing things that won’t happen, like invasions from Mars, collapse of society because of a calendar glitch in old computers, or active preparations to combat a deadly disease).
Under pharmaceutical rules, all pharmaceuticals must be tracked for ill effects after marketing. Most of us regard this as an additional guard to safety. It is impossible in a rational world to read this as anything but additional safety, and yet you and others you cite fear this means the world’s population is being used as “guinea pigs.”
Why don’t you volunteer to be the control group of those who don’t get vaccinated and volunteer to be exposed to the virus? That way you can avoid all the evils of WHO’s imagined shenanigans, you can demonstrate that the virus is nothing to be worried about and expose medicine and science as a sham — or your suffering will be mercifully short, perhaps.
It would be a win-win for us all.
[I have added Mercola.com's post to the Wall of Shame in my post, above.]
Some people are doing their own historical research — no flu vaccine opponent is doing research on the vaccine, and many of those working the historical end are, as you appear to be, working the hysterical end instead, looking for anything that will tend to corroborate your conspiracy imaginings, and ignoring real events, real dangers, and real deaths.
Youtube videos are not evidence, Angel.
So Angel, we should get rid of all vaccines? Every single one?
WHO Admits to Releasing Pandemic Virus into Population via ‘Mock-Up’ Vaccines
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2009/09/03/WHO-Admits-to-Releasing-Pandemic-Virus-into-Population-via-MockUp-Vaccines.aspx
Your turn. Lets hear you say that this news source is full of nut cases. and then Lets see you point one of your news sources out that is NOT. We can go on like this forever.
Go here to see all the evidence you want…
http://www.theflucase.com/
http://www.infowars.com/category/flu-pandemic/
Your little plan to discredit any evidence no matter what is, is not working! People are still doing thier own research, and are finding out what is proven, and what is not proven. But with you, any evidence is not good enough to you, if it doesnt follow along with government agendas. So you just call people names, and try to prevent people from even doing their own reasearch by making false claims that people are nut cases if they question the government, WHO, or the CDC. If anything, when you try to discredit proof. It makes people want to look into matters that much more. You havent proven anything!! all you can do is call people names. Prove that the doctors or even the head of a vaccine center from the videos I provided are as you would say, “nutcases.” Jane B. can provide you with any evidence you ask for. she even gives you the documents to file your own charges against Baxter, WHO, CDC, etc. at your own police department. And weather you like it or not, thats what people from around the world are doing. So go back to your eugenics group, and tell them their plan is not working! I’m sure you will just call me names and try to discredit what I have said. But it doesnt matter. The truth will win in the end. And people will seek the truth no-matter how hard you try to get them not to.
Your pathedic, I have spoken to doctors myself. And I know the truth. Like I said before. I want to see you get the vaccines. Prove the doctor “is a doctor” and prove the vaccines are the h1n1 vaccines. then make a video showing you getting the shots, then post it online, for everyone to see. Prove to everyone, that we all can trust the vaccines. You havent proved shit. and the evidence I provided, was proven doctors saying the vaccines are not safe. You want to live in denial, go ahead.
Angeleyeslady, Jane Burgermeister, the woman behind theflucase.com, is a nutter. See the post above.
She’s a nutcase. What she says is not true.
I looked at this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4SmFxyust0
That guy, Wayne Madsen, looks nuts, too. He makes wild claims, wholly unsupported by any other source, and often wrong. He claims there is thimerosal in the vaccine — generally not so. Not in the U.S., not in flu vaccines. He claims thimerosal’s been tied to autism. Absolutely not so. Studies show no correlation whatsoever. In any case, thimerosal isn’t used in child vaccines, and not even the most nutty anti-vaxxers claim that thimerosal causes autism in adults. CDC notes that the levels of thimerosal are so low that it’s considered “preservative free.”
I asked for evidence from doctors. You point us to a crazy woman and a hack reporter on a badly run Russian television source who spouts proven falsehoods, and third-hand hearsay.
Got any evidence? Not yet.
In contrast, we know the flu is a killer, and very dangerous to pregnant women:
I think it’s wildly irresponsible to spread false claims about this stuff, as Burgermeister does.
Here, get some facts from CDC.
I left a bunch of links to videos to show evidence. but this site is saying its awaiting moderation.
Hmmmmm I wonder if you will even post it?
http://www.theflucase.com
evidence…http://www.theflucase.com, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-kivVAAV-o
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pipPcUSiNMs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CP-BOUqsT3E&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f4L_uswfKh4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8exVppMQHYo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkiclMWy3Ns
http://www.infowars.com/category/flu-pandemic/
Seriously? Who? Where?
I think you’re exaggerating cautions. All vaccines carry risks, generally very small.
But the H1N1 virus carries huge risks. It’s killing kids from 2 to 23 — a group normally considered to be low risk.
You won’t find doctors arguing that the virus is no risk, and I’ll wager you won’t find many, if any, arguing that risking the virus is safer than getting the vaccine.
Have you got any evidence at all?
More like, Angel, that God forbid boy are you a moron.
God forbid, I misspelled “contagious”
Ed Darrell= Cyber Security Eugenics Nut Bag! This guy is on here to discredit everything that doesnt follow suit with the governments agenda. Even on tv news channels, Doctors are saying this h1n1 vaccine is NOT SAFE! So all you morons out there that want to listen to this goon, go ahead, and we will see what happens when you become contagous from the vaccine and spread the virus. I want to see Ed Darrell take the vaccine myself. all 3 of them
Vaccines are “poison?” Can you move in a little closer, Stop the Vax? My fist can’t quite get your nose.
God knows we don’t need idiots claiming that long-proven methods of protecting public health don’t work. Nor do we need sane people sadly misled by idiots, fools, and/or terrorists.
Vaccines are POISON. The only one[s] who benefit from vaccines are PHARMACEUTICALS. Lots of Vitamin D will protect you from the flu and many other diseases. DON’T be fooled by paid off media hype. STOP the sickening assault on humanity.
What happens to those who don’t take WHO’s advice:
http://trueslant.com/turimcnamee/2009/08/07/why-russia-may-see-a-lot-of-swine-flu-this-year/
When delving into conspiracy brains it isn’t easy to know the rational. But, these are the cries of the Anti-Vaccinationists.
The current drive to blame autism on Vaccinations isn’t the first big attempt made to stop vaccinations.
The incomparable H. L. Mencken pointed out in Notes on Democracy:
What happened in Los Angeles when a vaccination ordinance was submitted to a popular referendim is typical of what would happen anywhere under the same circumstances. The ordinance was rejected, and smallpox spread in the town.*
*-according to the annotations in my copy, from the limited information available estimated cases of smallpox in Los Angeles 1926 rose to 672 with 111 deaths from 478 and 5 the year before.
Okay, Wackaloons, pay attention: Maxomus says he’s getting near the end of his writing here (we’re not receptive to his particular n-grams, I guess):
We train troops of allies in the U.S. for lots of reasons, most often so our forces can coordinate with theirs in battle. We trained British fliers and infantrymen in the U.S. in World War I and World War II. After World War II we trained NATO troops and pilots, especially pilots of U.S.-built airplanes. We used to (and may still) have Filipinos and others from other allied nations training as cadets in our military academies, West Point, Annapolis, and Colorado Springs, so we could fight together, as we did in Korea, Vietnam, Bosnia, Kuwait, Afghanistan, and other places.
We train foreign troops because we are the meanest SOBs in the Valley of Death, and everyone wants to train with us, including the Israelis, who are even meaner, truth be told.
That’s a gooooood thing. Why do you think we should be paranoid about it? Why would we NOT train with our allies?
I’ll wager you don’t remember Kent State at all. Troops thought they were under attack and firing defensively at first. It was a major screwup of troop discipline — and Guardsmen were tried for murder in the case. I think you forget that we have rules against that stuff here.
Is that your only example? Keep that in mind, what the circumstances were, and how it turned out. It makes some of what you say later really silly.
Look what this person said
http://www.rense.com/general87/retired.htm
Thats my last post here take care…
In a bit of a rush here, enough said on this subject good luck with your future…
misspelled soldiers sorry,
Go to fema.gov type in search field “nle 09″ why do you think we train foreign troops in the US? think about it..and yes, alot of US soilders would’nt shoot Americans, but some would. It has Happened before. remember Kent State University?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kent_State_shootings
and this is what the DHS Thinks of our soilders
http://wnd.com/images/dhs-rightwing-extremism.pdf heres fox news report
Here is cnn’s
as far as everything else you asked for, I dont know of, because this hasn’t happened yet..Also, read what I provided you with past links, then see what you think then..
Show us where there is a call for mandatory vaccinations. Show us the “shoot to kill” orders for soldiers for people whose doctors say they may not have flu shots, because they are allergic to eggs.
Show us any U.S. soldier, Reservist or Guardsman who would follow such orders. I mean, we have otherwise good soldiers who go temporarily insane and refuse to follow orders because they think Obama wasn’t born in Hawaii. Who in the military would shoot U.S. citizens on the orders of a foreign woman heading WHO? Get real.
That’s pure bovine excrement. Untrue. First, WHO lacks all authority for such an effort. Second, it’s against the ethical codes of scientists. Third, no one thinks its possible or practical. Fourth, no one can figure out how to “breed” humans better than the evolutionary methods we use now.
That claim is pure, uncomposted, waste from the anal orifice of a male bovine.
Citing wild-eyed crazies as sources doesn’t endear your claims to me.
Show me any authority WHO has to conduct a eugenics campaign. Here, I’ll help you out; start here:
http://www.un.org/en/documents/charter/
Can’t find the authority there? Well, surprise! Look at the preamble, and see what the purpose of the UN is.
There are 193 member nations in the UN, including many enemies of the U.S. and EU. Your claim that they would all band together to create a system that lets the public health guys take over the world is worthy of a belly laugh — but, God save us, you seem serious. Without seeing you, it’s difficult to know if you’re practical joker or dangerously insane. There’s not much middle ground. (“Oh, yeah,” says Ahmadinejad. “I’m going to abdicate all my powers to Margaret Chan.” Really?)
While you’re at the UN site trying to find any support for your claims that there is a grand conspiracy, take a minute and read this pedestrian press release from WHO, detailing how they so urgently need information about the spread of H1N1 in order to fight it, to save lives.
Shame on you for slandering this organization of hard-working health officials. Do you knock down old ladies trying to cross the street in your spare time, too?
Get a grip, Maxomus.
Get serious. It’s not a crime to slander companies. Companies can’t press criminal charges — and in most western nations, its difficult to press civil charges to stop a complete crazy. If you get them into court, they can use insanity as a defense.
And if they did, you’d claim it was evidence of the conspiracy. The fact that Burgermeister isn’t in jail is one of the best refutations of her claims, and yours.
If you’re right, why haven’t the black helicopters spirited you away to the death camp yet?
You remind me of the peasant in “Monty Python and the Holy Grail,” who accused of woman of being a witch because she had turned him into a newt. “You’re not a newt now,” King Arthur said. “I got better,” the guy said as he slunk away.
Is there no program or organization for peace and good health care that you will not slander, Maxomus?
What in the world makes you think that site, loaded with insanity and divorced from reality, contains any information at all, let alone useful information? How is it anyone decides, sitting there in their tinfoil hats, that this nutter is not so completely nuts as his own writings indicate? Or, did they forget to wear the tinfoil hat?
How in the world could any rational high school student grant credence to that site?
Here, look at real details about the Trilateral Commission. It’s not a secret group. I’ve attended meetings and briefings. (I gather you’ve never even read any publication from the group, let alone attend a meeting, though this stuff has been freely available for the past 36 years.) They publish reports. Their influence is exercised in persuading others to do the right things.
These people want business to succeed, they believe that free enterprise and market solutions work best in economics, and that democratic forms of government work best at governing.
Think about that: Dedication to free markets and democratic governments. Which of those would be promoted by a swine flu epidemic? Neither. Businesses would be hamstrung if the disease posed a great problem, governments would be threatened by social instability.
Nations win when they get rich. War and disease prevent nations and the people within them from getting rich. Nations that act like you claim the WHO is acting, tend to be poor and crippled — North Korea, and to some degree Cuba, for example.
Who could possibly want to duplicate Kim Jong-Il’s “success?”
Don’t be silly.
Same with the Trilateral Commission. Here are highlights from a recent speech by Homeland Security Sec. Janet Napolitano. What would be the motivation for the Trilateral Commission, with its dedication to democracy and free enterprise, to engage in a silly and uncontrollable conspiracy to spread swine flu?
Here’s a transcript of her full remarks.
Anyone can check out that site you referred to, and discover it’s nuts. Do you have a clue who wrote it, or why? What would suggest to you it was not written by some power-mad megalomaniac trying to upset the good work of WHO?
Why have you made this pact with the devil, Maxomus, and what sort of pact have you made?
In the “I is for Irony” department regarding health care reform there is this: http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2009_08/019423.php
It would appear, so he claims, that Mr. Gladney got injured while protesting against the President’s health care reform proposal.
He’s now asking for donations to pay for his medical bills regarding his injuries. Why?
Because he’s been recently laid off his job and therefor doesn’t have health insurance.
Lady…would you care to comment? I suppose in the “free market” system he should just roll over and die?
And once again Maxo propagates a hoax because he hopes to God the population of the country is stupider then he is.
P.S. If anybody is trying to create a panic, its the government, and the main stream media behind that. last friday I saw a cnn story on tv that stated the military will be teaming up with FEMA To help with vaccinations of the population. They also stated that the government could close state borders in the process. Don’t believe me? look in cnn’s archives for the story. Fox news is also showing story’s on tv. look for yourself…
Look, There is one thing this site is right about. The WHO is Not trying to take control of the world. However, The WHO is part of a population reduction plan, and is willing to help with the agenda. Look up Eugenics, Then look up Agenda 21. Also, Go to The Infowars Flu Pandemic Resource web page http://www.infowars.com/the-infowars-flu-pandemic-resource/ and see what you find there. I also suggest you listen to Alex Jones radio from Infowars.com
One more thing; “Jane Bürgermeister” If anything that she has claimed against Baxter inc., WHO, etc. was not true, then why hasn’t any crimminal charges been pressed against her by those organisations? Here is a link you also might find interesting..
http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/sociopolitica/esp_sociopol_committee300_09.htm#Section
Wonder how Maxo is going to explain the 50 US soldiers in quarantine in Iraq because of swine flu.
Yes, but evidence of what? Can you explain why that story should panic anyone? Burgermeister claims there will be concentration camps, a suspension of the U.S. Constitution, and summary executions. That story does not support any of those claims, and denies all of them at least indirectly.
What do you claim that article is evidence for?
You’re the one propagating the hoax that the WHO is trying to take over, Maxo.
And all vaccines, you twit, carry a certain amount of risk with them. Even the ones you got as a child. But only a moron thinks whatever risk in the influenze vaccine is higher then the risk of a pandemic. Or did you somehow miss my saying that less then 100 years ago the influenze killed 100 million people? That’s a third of the population of the United States, Maxo. And do you want to know how, if it happens, it wil happen again? Because of people like you who play chicken when it comes to the health of yourself and those around you.
So the real question is this. Why should I trust you over my doctor?
Maxomus said:
Great. Then tell us, who originated the bizarre claim that WHO was conspiring to take over the government of the U.S.? Who was the lying skunk who started the story that people would be vaccinated “at the point of a gun?”
I’m still not convinced you read the stuff you post. None of the wild claims made by Bürgermeister are borne out in any of the articles at your site. Nor anywhere else.
I suppose this site will find this information as a hoax as well…. http://vactruth.com/2009/08/03/vaccinations-are-causing-impaired-blood-flow-ischemia-chronic-illness-disease-and-death-for-us-all-hp/
Then roll your sleve up Nick and take that vaccine from a person you wont even know, because they “care about you” I for one wont allow it. Have you ever watched the 60 minute video about the swine flu from 1976? if you haven’t, I suggest that you do…
http://www.dailymotion.com/Dianequiose-4
Also, what you said “hoaxes don’t need masterminds..they just need idiots to propagate them”, thats exactly what this site is doing…
Maxo, the swine flu influenza pandemic of 1918 killed between 50-100 million people. Tell me…do you build fire escapes on a building after the building is on fire or before it? That’s why it was declared a pandemic, because the outcome could have been devastating.
And hoaxes don’t need masterminds..they just need idiots to propagate them.
oops…misspelled “victim”
If you think this is a hoax, who is the master mind behind it? Also, the only Hoax here is the H1N1 Swine Flu. This Flu has not caused even close to as many deaths or sickness than any other known Flu’s, viruses, etc. So why would this pandemic be so hyped up? How does the government, WHO, CDC, ETC. know that this pandemic is going to worse? How do they know it will mutate? and why would this pandemic be more dangerous than any other known viruses, flu’s etc. if it has’nt happened yet? The WHO said it will return this fall. How do they know that for sure? Why would anyone want to take a vaccine if they arent even sick? Why wont they notify a swine flu victom what is in the vaccine shot? Remember, this is supposed to be a new unknown strand of virus. have you ever asked those questions?
heres some evidence…. http://truinternational.blogspot.com/2009/08/using-new-laws-for-h1n1-swine-flu-may.html
ed-you have no clue what is even on my site to see the evidence, article’s etc. that is provided from the site. Instead, you want to believe what this site says, and not even take the time to check my site out and see for yourself what is there, and then draw your own conclutions. My site just Re-prints articles, Documents etc. from other sources on the web. I even show where the information came from. and to answer your question about a level 6 pandemic. heres your answer…
http://www.who.int/csr/disease/avian_influenza/phase/en/index.html
Hey, Maxomus: Look up the definition for “pandemic.” I don’t think you have a grasp on what it means, nor what it means when WHO — an agency with no plenary powers whatsoever — declares a situation to be a pandemic.
Again, please read the post.
Maxomus wondered:
Yes, and we read it. In fact, if you check the body of the post (did you read it at all?) you’ll see that I cite it and link to it. I also explain where to find what the states have actually done with the proposed act.
MSEHPA does nothing that is alleged in those articles. Have you read ‘em? Don’t you think it curious that none of those hysterical claims bother to link to a UN site, nor to the CDC, nor to any state that has actually passed any of the laws?
We don’t have secret laws in the U.S., by the way. WHO has no legal authority in any sovereign nation.
See Mary’s comment. Please stop feeding us manure.
“WHI” Stands for World Health Infrastructure HERES MORE PROOF…
http://books.google.com/books?id=WTisAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA142&lpg=PA142&dq=world+health+and+security+infrastructure&source=bl&ots=ABjjlM08KK&sig=gBTDLXxatXMyZ_EvQ1uOEDSKVLo&hl=en&ei=hz9_SoauFc-OtgfRqpHgAQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1#v=onepage&q=&f=false
more proof…
http://www.infowars.com/the-infowars-flu-pandemic-resource/
more links of proof….
http://www.hhs.gov/disasters/emergency/manmadedisasters/bioterorism/medication-vaccine-qa.html
http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/2009/pdf/E9-14412.pdf
http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/2009/pdf/E9-14948.pdf
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5i-Qd-q3ALSGUV0tZqwFVoy1GlGfQD99TEJN81
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5iCajXBnuqbQEUf_cH4_dblpysz_gD99MCRJO1
http://opencrs.com/document/R40560/
http://www.hhs.gov/news/press/2009pres/07/20090713b.html
https://www.medicalcountermeasures.gov/BARDA/MCM/panflu/factsheet.aspx
http://www.fda.gov/downloads/BiologicsBloodVaccines/NewsEvents/WorkshopsMeetingsConferences/ucm095708.pdf
http://www.infowars.com/the-infowars-flu-pandemic-resource/
http://www.naturalnews.com/z026496_NaturalNews_vaccination_the_WHO.html
http://www.healthfreedomusa.org/
http://www.nvic.org/NVIC-Vaccine-News/June-2009/Swine-Flu-Vaccine–Will-We-Have-A-Choice–by-Barba.aspx
Yet another attempt to cover the truth. Have any of you heard of The Model State Emergency Health Powers Act? “MSEHPA” for short: Here is the link to see what it is. I suggest you READ it before you try to debunk anyone that HAS proof to back their claims up…heres the link…
http://www.publichealthlaw.net/MSEHPA/MSEHPA%20Surveillance.pdf
Here is the World Health Organization pandemic laws from WHO…
http://www.who.int/csr/disease/influenza/PIPGuidance09.pdf
When was the H1N1 first identified, Shannon? I think it was before Obama took office, wasn’t it? Of course, the conspiracists don’t let countering inconsistencies deter them, do they?
The World News Bulletin looks to be a “splog” but it leads to an article at a place called “Farmwars.” One of the commenters there claims that H1N1 is due to a GMO potato. Don’t eat the French Fries!
Doncha love the conspiracy theorists? They are certainly creative-give em that!
I have also seen blogs claiming that the swine flu was engineered by the Obama administration, WHO and a cartel of international bankers as part of a plot to commit genocide of the American people. It is unclear whether the swine flu or the vaccine would be the agent of genocide, but it was definitely asserted that vaccines would be given by gunpoint. I don’t have any links but that should be enough for you to google if you’re interested in exposing yourself to even more nutcases.
Makes me think of the saying: “Sometimes I feel like a mushroom, you keep me in the dark and feed me manure.”