Leaking of GOP ignorance threatens to turn into a flood


My GOP friends tried to say that Todd Akin’s odd views on  pregnancy and rape are a brand of stupid unique to him.  ‘Don’t think all Republicans are that ignorant,’ they said.

Hey, I worked with Republicans and in the Republican Party for years.  I know a lot of bright, intelligent Republicans.

Most of them couldn’t get through the door of the  party these days, if they didn’t already have elected or appointed posts.  Many Republidans come well-acquainted with libraries, books, critical thinking  and an appreciation of art and literature, and at least a rudimentary understanding of science — but alas, they and their views are being smothered by the chuckleheads in the party.

When the Akin flap broke, we were all saddened to learn that he had carried some of those odd views for several years, and that Rep. Paul Ryan of Wisconsin and the entire Texas Republican delegation in the House of Representatives joined with Akin last February to try to change the legal definition of rape to match Akin’s views.  How embarrassing, not just to be caught, but to have done that stuff in the first place.

“Aberration,” the Republicans said.

Pennsylvania GOP candidate for U.S. Senate Tom Smith

Pennsylvania GOP candidate for U.S. Senate Tom Smith told reporters pregnancy from rape is about the same as pregnancy from an out-of-wedlock affair. Photo from Tom Smith campaign

Don’t look now, but that trickle from the dam holding back the stupid swelled to a stream, and it’s threatening to erode the dam and unleash all the stupid behind it.

I refer you to the odd and disgusting case of Pennsylvania Republican Tom Smith, the GOP hope to defeat Democratic U.S. Sen. Bob Casey, reported in the New York Daily News:

Pennsylvania Senate hopeful Tom Smith sparked controversy Monday after he compared a pregnancy resulting from rape to “having a baby out-of-wedlock” – days after Rep. Todd Akin (R-Mo.) shocked many by claiming that “legitimate rape” doesn’t lead to pregnancy.

Smith tried to distance himself from Akin’s comments at the Pennsylvania Press Club in Harrisburg, saying that the congressman “should have never said anything like that,” the Harrisburg Patriot-News reported.

But when a reporter asked him what he would do if one of his daughters or granddaughters became pregnant as a result of rape, he said that he had “lived something similar to that with [his] own family,” referring to his daughter’s “out-of-wedlock” pregnancy from consensual sex.

“She chose life, and I commend her for that,” Smith said. “She knew my views but fortunately for me … she chose the way I thought. Now don’t get me wrong. It wasn’t rape.”

When pressed by another reporter, the 66-year-old reiterated the comparison of his daughter’s out-of-wedlock pregnancy to becoming pregnant from rape.

“Put yourself in a father’s position. Yes, it is similar,” he said.

Smith, who is running against incumbent Sen. Bob Casey (D-Pa.) in November, later clarified his statements at the same event.

“No … I said I went through a situation [with a daughter]. It’s very, very difficult,” Smith said. “But do I condone rape? Absolutely not. But do I propose life, yes I do. I’m pro-life, period.”

Steve Forbes endorses the odd Tom Smith

Steve Forbes endorses Tom Smith? The scary question is whether Forbes bothered to learn Smith’s views, or did he perhaps endorse Smith knowing about Smith’s odd views, and hoping Smith would push them in Washngton? Smith campaign image.

One might wonder if the real reason the GOP cut their convention short was to prevent more leaks of the truth about their candidates views and odd positions on issues.  Cutbacks in news departments and the shrinking news holes in most newspapers could be partly to blame for these late-breaking stories of stupid.  Generally news stories expose gross ignorance and patent stupidity in primary campaigns, and voters of the parties vote away candidates who hold extreme, bizarre, dangerous or silly views.  News organizations don’t have the staff to expose these things early, and they get exposed late only on a catch-as-catch-can basis.

But there is a very real danger that some people with money are pushing these candidates because of their odd views.  In Texas, Tea Party courtesan Ted Cruz defeated a well-known candidate for the U.S. Senate nomination, and part of his appeal may be his odd views that the United Nations is trying to seize U.S. golf courses.  Democrat Paul Sadler faces an uphill battle even in Texas where Cruz’s friends in oil pipelines are seizing private farm and ranch land.  Cruz claims to fight against an imaginary problem, but he lets the real problems roll right over Texans.

A wise voter without a lot of time to study in depth the views of candidates might be compelled to vote Democratic straight tickets as the safest thing to do, even with a few odd views among Democrats.

How many more?   How many other odd, divorced-from-reality views have residence in the penthouses of the Republican mansion?  Waiting for one more shoe to drop would be bad enough — ignorance in the GOP seems to be a centipede with dozens of shoes.

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24 Responses to Leaking of GOP ignorance threatens to turn into a flood

  1. JamesK says:

    Since the GOP thinks companies should be worshipped and that supply leads demand, lets see what Abraham Lincoln said about that…you know..an actual Republican, another Republican president that the GOP would lynch if he was alive today:

    It is not needed, nor fitting here [in discussing the Civil War] that a general argument should be made in favor of popular institutions; but there is one point, with its connections, not so hackneyed as most others, to which I ask a brief attention. It is the effect to place capital on an equal footing with, if not above, labor, in the structure of government. It is assumed that labor is available only in connection with capital; that nobody labors unless somebody else, owning capital, somehow by the use of it induces him to labor. This assumed, it is next considered whether it is best that capital shall hire laborers, and thus induce them to work by their own consent, or buy them, and drive them to it without their consent. Having proceeded thus far, it is naturally concluded that all laborers are either hired laborers or what we call slaves. And further, it is assumed that whoever is once a hired laborer is fixed in that condition for life.

    Now, there is no such relation between capital and labor as assumed, nor is there any such thing as a free man being fixed for life in the condition of a hired laborer. Both these assumptions are false, and all inferences from them are groundless.

    “Labor is prior to, and independent of, capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed. Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher consideration. Capital has its rights, which are as worthy of protection as any other rights.

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  2. JamesK says:

    So, David, when Kyle van Knocker, a 5 year oldchild, developed an treatable disease called neuroblastoma and his insurance company refused to pay for his treatements his parents should have let him die? Because they went bankrupt paying his medical bills. What kind of pro-life position is that?

    senior citizens shouldn’t have medicare? Because that is what Paul Ryan’s plan does. Yeah I know it supposedly preserves medicare for those older then 55 but it’s not like those of us younger then 55 aren’t going to get old and develop such things as cancer and parkinsons. And do you honestly think the insurance companies are going to sell insurance to old people when the old people are the most expensive to insure? Do you honestly think my mom would have been able to get private health insurance when she retired because of the lung cancer she got?

    My uncle Bill’s family should have gone bankrupt paying for his nursing home after his stroke put him there? Or my uncle John’s family should have gone bankrupt paying for his nursing home after he got Parkinsons?

    You and your party’s answer is to say “**** you, go off and die.” All because you and your party are too morally depraved and too stupid to lift a, and my apologies for this Ed, God damn finger to help. You and your ilk are not moral, you are not pro-life and you for damn sure are not Christian. There is nothing in your party’s position on health care that is remotely pro-life or remotely moral or remotely Christian.

    Oh and before you try defending Ryan’s little voucher program..yeah those vouchers are going to be absolutely worthless.

    Your ideology is nothing more then a morally and intellectually bankrupt position.

    To hell with you and your party.

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  3. Jim says:

    Good evening, David!

    Thank you for offering your opinion on abortion. I am presuming you favor making abortion illegal. (Unless you are just offering a “devils’ advocate” argument. And that’s okay. That can help to elucidate the problems around a particular issue, too.) But presuming you would support the criminalization of abortion, can you answer a series of questions for me assuming you get your wish? I’d surely appreciate it.

    Who will be punished for the abortion? The woman or girl who sought it? The doctor or midwife who performed it? The husband, boyfriend, parent or incestuous relative who paid for and arranged it? Will we punish the friend who drove the abortive woman to the covert clinic or back alley? If it’s a crime, we’ll need to think all of this through. Bank robbery is a crime. And if I drive your getaway car, I’m going to jail, also.

    What shall be the punished for having an abortion? For performing one? For assisting in the procedure? For arranging or otherwise facilitating an abortion? Do you think a fine would do the trick? A few years in prison? Life in prison? Republican Senator Tom Coburn of Oklahoma has been refreshingly candid about this. He believes the death penalty would be the appropriate punishment for performing an abortion. Do you agree? Why or why not?

    If we criminalize abortion, who will police this matter? Or are the misnamed “pro-lifers” actually just looking to get a law on the books with no teeth? Crimes need investigators, prosecutors, defense attorneys, judges, bailiffs, juries, jail guards and most of all – space on both the court docket and in our jails and prisons. To your knowledge, is any of that at a surplus these days?

    Perhaps if we decriminalized drugs, we might make room in our courts and prisons…and free up enough police officers to investigate abortions to make it work. Could this be what Ron Paul is hoping? Inquiring minds want to know.

    Jim

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  4. JamesK says:

    Oh and just because I know you’re going to be asinine enough to argue my claim about the Founding Fathers I’ll just cut you off at the pass now.

    Act for the Relief of Sick and Disabled Seamen:

    Third Clause:
    That it shall be the duty of the several collectors to make a quarterly return of the sumscollected by them, respectively, by virtue of this act, to the secretary of the treasury ; and the president of the United States is hereby authorized, out of the same, to provide for the temporary relief and maintenance of sick, or disabled seamen, in the hospitals or other proper institutions now established in the several ports of the United States, or in ports where no such institutions exist, then in such other manner as he shall direct

    Oopsie…there goes the right wing claim that government run health care is unconstitutional….

    Sorry a mother and a father should provide adequate health care for their child yes…but if they can’t the government has a responsibility to step in and help. Instead of leaving the child or the family to get sick and die.

    Yes yes I know that annoys your Ayn Randinspired fantasy world but that’s the reality and that’s what’s moral. Just like it’s the government responsibility to provide Medicare for senior citizens because for damn sure the insurance companies won’t give them health care.

    Hell even Rush Limbaugh..the grand fat drug addict race baiting hate monger himself once said the government should provide coverage for catastrophic health care.

    If you disagree, David, then you abandon any concept of morality and become nothing more then a “I got mine, **** you morally depraved jackanape.” But feel free to continue to prove that the Republican motto really is “In this world only the strong survive, if you’re strong (ie rich) you live, if you’re weak (ie not rich) you die.”

    Because you sure aren’t being Christian with that set of beliefs on health care, David, you’re being nothing more then a Satanist of the Levayian kind…just like your little idol Paul Ryan.

    And no..I’m not mocking you…I’m actually telling you that’s what you are.

    If you’re going to say you care about life then have the intellectual and moral honesty to care about life after it’s born and be willing to step in and help even if that means the government has to do so. After all..you want the government to step in and protect unborn babies…..but you don’t want the government to step in and protect life after its born?

    Yeah..hello stupidly insane amounts of hypocrisy.

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  5. JamesK says:

    To quote:
    We arent , that’s the responsibility of the Father and the Mother to provide for their health needs. The second part is ridiculous – but again, people must bear the consequences of their actions.

    Yeah actually we are..that’s what’s called being a moral people. Then there’s the fact that the founding fathers set up a government run and paid for health system for merchant marinemen back in the day.

    But lets get this straight. You want to force people to give birth to children no matter what because you’re “prolife” but you won’t lift a damn finger to help that child when his/her parents are unable to provide adequate health care for that child?

    Yeah sorry you just threw your morality out the window there right along with any claim of being “prolife”. Sorry, David, if you want your principle to be the guiding law then guess what you get to pay something for it. That means that you and yours will be taking responsibility for that life you insisted on being born.

    You want to claim you’re oh so moral? Then be willing to pay the price for it else your morality is nonexistant.

    You oh little fellow Christian of mine couldn’t follow Jesus Christ if your soul depended on it.

    Oh wait..it does. Well sucks to be you.

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  6. JamesK says:

    To quote:
    But it would be a morally wrong decision on the part of the mother not to choose to carry the baby

    According to your morality. In what legal document of the United States is it said that it’s your morality that is used to decide things?

    Your party is all about supposedly getting government off people’s backs. and yet here your party not only wants to put the government on the backs of women but up their vaginas too.

    To quote:
    And I advocate life and shouldn’t be mocked for stating it.

    You’re not being mocked. You’re being accused of being a hypocritical liar. There’s a difference. I accused you and every other so called “pro-life” conservative of being hypocritical liars. I was not mocking you or anyone else. You say you oppose abortion and yet making it illegal would not do a bloody to get rid of abortion. You say you’re pro-life but you and your party doesn’t give enough of a damn about life to step up and help it. Your party opposes abortion and yet at least certain members of your party *coughs Rick Santorum coughs* who was nearly your party’s nominee thinks it would be a jolly good idea to ban contraception…which, among other things, lowers the number of abortions.

    But hey if you want to think that you should get to decide everyone’s morality and make what you view as immoral illegal then I’m sure Ed and every other liberal I know will have no problem in deciding that it is immoral for anyone to have a mass accumulation of wealth while poverty exists in this country so hey we’ll just have to make it illegal…..

    Yeah Mittens car garage? That’s immoral now. Mitt Romney buying up companies, bankrupting them, sending jobs to China while walking away with his employees pensions..yeah that’s now immoral too so we’ll just have to throw Mittens fat arse in prison for it….

    Though personally I actually don’t know why stealing workers pensions isn’t illegal because it’s theft. The pension belongs to the workers..they should get it no matter what.

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  7. Ed Darrell says:

    But it would be a morally wrong decision on the part of the mother not to choose to carry the baby. A dilemma – it comes down to a choice, pro-choice anybody? And I advocate life and shouldn’t be mocked for stating it.

    You’re supporting people who insist that the mothers must have no choice in the matter. No one’s mocking you — we’re just pointing out your moral failure.

    You can call an action wrong if you wish — just like I think it’s wrong for a rich guy to take a tax credit of $77,000 on his dressage horse, when he sneezes away more money than that on Jello, macaroni, fancy cars and fancy houses most days. But I’m not calling for a law to make it illegal to do dressage, or keep a horse, or have a fancy car. There’s a difference between saying one disapproves, and forcing people to undergo physical procedures.

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  8. David xavier says:

    “I think it’s odd that you seem affected with infanticide, but you ridicule James when he talks about the need to stop mass infanticide, caused by hunger and poverty.”
    You know James was talking about America and using the loaded term “Pro-life” – but I didn’t mean to ridicule the mass deaths of children due to hunger and poverty in America- which apparently is now the new Somalia-
    “You’re reinforcing the view that conservatives don’t really like kids, they just like abortion as an issue — ‘protect life in the womb, but disrespect anyone already living as a leech on society’ is the usual knock. “
    No, you chose that view because it allows you to dehumanize conservatives. Now if someone is choosing to live as a leech, then are they not worthy of disrespect? If they are dependant due to misfortune then why would I show disrespect to them. The muddle comes in the definitions of misfortune I guess, which are poles apart.
    “I don’t recall James raising the issue of abortion as a particular issue. The issue is that women shouldn’t be raped. If they are raped, it should be a crime to insist they carry the rapist’s baby.”
    He used the term pro-life, and his entire post referenced abortion and women’s rights -but I yield. I insist on nothing – I just advocate a position. To insist that someone carry their rapist’s baby against their free will should be a crime. But it would be a morally wrong decision on the part of the mother not to choose to carry the baby. A dilemma – it comes down to a choice, pro-choice anybody? And I advocate life and shouldn’t be mocked for stating it.
    “If it is not a crime, at least get out of the way and let them ameliorate the harmful effects of the rape, and do not saddle them with a nine-months-at-hard-labor sentence for having been a victim, nor a 21-years-at-hard-labor sentence. If you’re concerned about abortions in rape victims, stop the rapes.”
    If I could stop the rapes I would, but not I or the government can control the evil that lurks inside some men. To minimize rape as a crime would to a certain extent require some rudimentary modification of the behavior of its victims and our society. Finally, the women are giving life, it is not a sentence- you have it absolutely backwards.
    “A lot of men have particularly tin ears on these issues — including, it appears, most of the GOP men in the House of Representatives, especially Todd Akin and Tom Smith, Paul Ryan, and Mitt Romney. If you wish to make sure that pregnancy goes through to completion, volunteer for the fetus transplant. But men should not have the privilege of oppressing women by requiring women to endure rape crimes for months or years. I thought you were pro-life? What about the lives of the women? “
    How are some men requiring women to endure rape crimes for months and years? Tom Smith said it was a personal choice, though he advocated life. I myself have only advocated a position. The Supreme Court says abortion is legal and rape is a crime… I can only wish to advocate a position a pathway, just like Planned Parenthood or you. As for Ryan, he is practicing Catholic and for Mitt…who knows. As for fetus transplant, you’re not serious and it’s still not possible and I am sure it’s a sin somehow.
    “Infanticide? The best way we’ve discovered through hard research to prevent infanticide is to make sure every baby is a wanted baby. Teach contraception; make abortion legal, safe and readily available. If you do those things, abortion rates and hard numbers will drop, often dramatically. Take care of child poverty and hunger; you’ve got a chance to eliminate elective abortion.”
    There’s also not killing the baby, (or not having an abortion which is the same thing). Listen to what you’re saying; you live in a Godless world without hope – what! a baby cannot be adopted? Missed that one huh…first cab off the rank, but just not a priority. How about becoming good Christians, parental support, community support….
    “I’ve met many kids who say they wish they’d never been born. Victims of poverty in almost all cases, often victims of abuse because they were unplanned and unwanted. It’s a tragedy when it happens.”
    I hope you didn’t agree with them? Did you say – yeah – your mother – she was poor, you were unplanned and unwanted-she should have aborted you- else she might commit infanticide later on… Lucky you weren’t a victim of infanticide! This is your position isn’t it or is it more ‘nuanced’. Killing to stop a future killing…where’s the “Minority Report”!
    “Don’t pull a “my crime is worse than your crime” trick here. You cannot claim to be pro-life, when you propose to punish women for having been raped, and when you do nothing to prevent infanticide, but instead appear to favor it.”
    I am not proposing to punish the women- there is a crime, there is a child produced from the crime. Does the child suffer for the sins of the father? It isn’t about “my crime is worse than your crime”; it’s about preventing further immoral acts . Again this is a position I am advocating – I am not coercing the woman. Planned Parenthood’s default position is for it to die –rape, inconvenience, wrong sex, its twins and one too many so one must die, lunar calendar wrong- take your pick. As for doing nothing about infanticide – again I consider abortion as infanticide which you are in favor of (I think to prevent infanticide!) and secondly you are obtusely placing your conclusions, which I object, into my mouth.
    “That’s not what the Bible says. It’s not Old Testament doctrine. Don’t make stuff up and claim to speak for Jesus. False prophecy is similarly a crime.”
    Hey, I only use the Old Testament to rip on the gays. It’s a Catholic catechism and Jesus speaks through the Church. Obama, progressive thought and liberalism are the false Prophets…which is my one and only prophecy. Rape is a mortal sin, and so is abortion….and you don’t need to be a Christian scholar to understand this. This position is not odd, stupid or worthy of a belly laugh.

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  9. David xavier says:

    “My statement about children going hungry in this country had nothing to do with abortion. It had to do with showing you that your party is not pro-life. You might want to recognize the difference.”
    So pro-life means children not going hungry? And isnt there an obestiy epidemic in America….or did Michelle get that wrong?

    “23 million unemployed is whose fault?”

    But Obama made promises , remember. Secondly , the size of the pie isn’t fixed. Tax cuts generate economic activity that provide investment , jobs and wealth ……and how is ‘giving’(your word) , in fact its really allowing the rich to keep their own money…going to destroy the middle class? How is it going to make the poor poorer or is an unearned transfer payment from the rich a human right now? I guess it was an Obama promise- give from the productive to the unproductive and you will reap what you sow.

    “Yeha except all those starving children also existed when Bush was in office and the GOP controlled Congress. So according to you they failed..”

    But Bush eats babies where as Obama has had 4 years to fix the problem…and the problem is one of Child hunger- if there is straving children in this country then its a result of severe dysfunction and family services should step in. If there are hungry children then they are the responsibility of the parents who need to make the right choices. Limiting food stamps to food and essentials sounds …well commonsensical.

    “First off making women who’ve gotten pregnant through rape is just going through the trauma of being raped over and over again. Secondly..not everyone in this country is Christian and you, wannabe Christian Taliban, have no right to force anyone to live by your religious beliefs.”

    “As Christians , we bear the cross”…. you do not want to do it, fine. I’m not forcing anybody to do anything. I am advocating a course of action if one considers they are Christian ..an even that it is up to the individual as even Christians differ. Tom Smith even said his daughter made the right choice …because it is her choice alone. Obama is the one who is forcing people to live against their religious beliefs.

    “THE LAWS OF THE UNITED STATES DO NOT IN ANY WAY ANSWER TO THE BIBLE OR ANYONE’S RELIGIOUS BELIEFS.”

    Just to God….perhaps, as he bestow your rights?

    “And I sure as hell haven’t seen your party ponying up any money to help those women take care of those kids, I sure as hell haven’t seen you conservative Christians adopting all the kids that are in the foster system.”

    Abortion has shutdown all the orphanages. There still a foster system. Catholics used to run adoption agencies for Christians who have done the right thing and let their child live.

    ” I sure as hell haven’t seen you or your ilk make damn sure that every child and every mother has the absolute best health care in the world. In fact your party wants to gut the entire safety net and dump all those women and all those children out onto the streets with absolutely no-one around to help them.”

    We arent , that’s the responsibility of the Father and the Mother to provide for their health needs. The second part is ridiculous – but again, people must bear the consequences of their actions.

    “You and your party’s claim to “being the party of pro-life” is nothing but a facade to cover your real desire..to tell women what to do..to control them. And in that vein you are absolutely no different then how the Taliban treat their women.”

    I am not trying to tell them how to live their lives, I am advocating a lifestyle / course of action that I consider wise. Just as feminists and planned parenthood also give counsel- the godless heathens they.

    “You and your party want to claim to be the party of small government? Then you should recognize that you are contradicting that principle wholesale when it comes to your position on abortion.”

    Whereas you, are not contradicting yourself- you know , being the party of big government?
    “Until you and yours are willing to actually be the party of pro life..to make sure that life is taken care and has what it needs to sustain itself and prosper then you and your party, when it comes to being pro-life, are nothing but the party of sociopathic liars.”

    Being a United States citizen means you have the right to well and truly mess your life up or prosper. So some children are indeed born into unfortunate circumstances…but what else is new in the entire history of humanity…some children are born and endure and some are adopted out . Conservatives can offer guidance – that life brings hope. But human nature is human nature. Before the destructive sixties there used to be social constraints and taboos that helped people make right choices…..the flight from transcendence is truly terrifying.

    “Sorry, David, I’m a former Republican from back when the party was actually Republican and actually moral and actually rational and sane. I know the playbook and you, David, are in way over your head here.You and your fellow Republicans and your fellow conservatives are nothing but utter fakes. You are fake Republicans and you are fake conservatives. Call yourselves what you really are…fascists.”
    Sorry james,I have never been a Republican, but I am sure you would define Conservatives and Republicans in close alignment with your views. For only a fake would hold forth the view that abortion is wrong and sinful . And only a fake would actually use the word sinful. This is America , a Republican politician should be able to state that he is against abortion- absolutely, as it is morally wrong …and not to be called stupid, fake , fascist … such a position would have been unremarkable during Goldwaters run

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  10. JamesK says:

    Since we got to talking about the Catholic churches position on abortion and David seems to think we should go with that position..lets see if he’s quite so willing to agree that we should implement the following of the Catholic church’s social teachings.

    http://www.osjspm.org/MajorThemesCatholicSocialTeaching

    Ill just give you a small sample:

    Economic Justice: The economy must serve people, not the other way around. All workers have a right to productive work, to decent and fair wages, and to safe working conditions. They also have a fundamental right to organize and join unions. People have a right to economic initiative and private property, but these rights have limits. No one is allowed to amass excessive wealth when others lack the basic necessities of life.

    Catholic teaching opposes collectivist and statist economic approaches. But it also rejects the notion that a free market automatically produces justice. Distributive justice, for example, cannot be achieved by relying entirely on free market forces. Competition and free markets are useful elements of economic systems. However, markets must be kept within limits, because there are many needs and goods that cannot be satisfied by the market system. It is the task of the state and of all society to intervene and ensure that these needs are met.

    Role of Government:
    Role of Government and Subsidiarity

    The state has a positive moral function. It is an instrument to promote human dignity, protect human rights, and build the common good. All people have a right and a responsibility to participate in political institutions so that government can achieve its proper goals.

    

The principle of subsidiarity holds that the functions of government should be performed at the lowest level possible, as long as they can be performed adequately. When the needs in question cannot adequately be met at the lower level, then it is not only necessary, but imperative that higher levels of government intervene.

    And lets also remember that the Catholic church opposes the death penalty in all cases and does not believe in unjust wars, which the Iraq war very much was, and opposes torture…which the GOP thought a jolly good idea to authorize.

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  11. JamesK says:

    To correct a typo:
    Because that’s all your party did for 8 years during Bush and the result was the Great Depression

    That should be “…and the result was the Great Recession.”

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  12. JamesK says:

    Then there is the fact that if abortion is made illegal it will not *poof* magically disappear. Abortion has been around a lot longer then Roe v Wade and you can make abortion illegal all you want but babies still will be dying.

    There will still be rape…it will be illegal back alley rapes which will lead to the deaths of the fetuses yes and also the mothers.

    So, David, you want to replace a river of blood with another river of blood and think you’re accomplishing something?

    Or is it that you think women who have abortions deserve to die?

    And then your party fights against the very things that lessen abortion. Like helping women in poverty and providing contraceptives.

    You and your party are not pro-life by any stretch of the definition.

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  13. Ed Darrell says:

    [On hunger and poverty] Ah, and abortion will fix all that. Havent met a child yet who wishes he wasnt born.

    Banning abortion tends to increase both hunger and poverty, but that’s not the issue. Hunger and poverty require other solutions. I think it’s odd that you seem affected with infanticide, but you ridicule James when he talks about the need to stop mass infanticide, caused by hunger and poverty. You’re reinforcing the view that conservatives don’t really like kids, they just like abortion as an issue — ‘protect life in the womb, but disrespect anyone already living as a leech on society’ is the usual knock.

    I don’t recall James raising the issue of abortion as a particular issue. The issue is that women shouldn’t be raped. If they are raped, it should be a crime to insist they carry the rapist’s baby. If it is not a crime, at least get out of the way and let them ameliorate the harmful effects of the rape, and do not saddle them with a nine-months-at-hard-labor sentence for having been a victim, nor a 21-years-at-hard-labor sentence. If you’re concerned about abortions in rape victims, stop the rapes.

    A lot of men have particularly tin ears on these issues — including, it appears, most of the GOP men in the House of Representatives, especially Todd Akin and Tom Smith, Paul Ryan, and Mitt Romney. If you wish to make sure that pregnancy goes through to completion, volunteer for the fetus transplant. But men should not have the privilege of oppressing women by requiring women to endure rape crimes for months or years. I thought you were pro-life? What about the lives of the women?

    Infanticide? The best way we’ve discovered through hard research to prevent infanticide is to make sure every baby is a wanted baby. Teach contraception, make abortion legal, safe and readily available. If you do those things, abortion rates and hard numbers will drop, often dramatically. Take care of child poverty and hunger, you’ve got a chance to eliminate elective abortion.

    I’ve met many kids who say they wish they’d never been born. Victims of poverty in almost all cases, often victims of abuse because they were unplanned and unwanted. It’s a tragedy when it happens.

    I think your stand of opposing abortion increases infanticide, and is hypocritical on the issue of life, as well as punishing unfairly and unjustly to all women, but especially those who are required to carry a pregnancy to term that they do not want. Most of the rest of the world shares that view, which is why rape is a war crime. I don’t think rape loses any of its criminality by occurring out of a war zone, and the insistence on the victim’s carrying a rape baby to term is similarly criminal, at least morally, if not in law.

    A lot of children going hungry and starving…in America, oh Please ? Whose fault is that?

    Those who drove the economy into a ditch, and then used that excuse to cut aid to families that lack food. Actually, they cut that aid BEFORE the economy crashed.

    It’s certainly not the fault of the Obama administration, which has been rebuffed at every point when they’ve tried to help the kids more. Michelle Obama’s good work to improve nutrition is regularly and thoroughly ridiculed by the philistine yahoos of the Republican party, in National Review, and especially American Expectorator.

    Whose fault it is, is not the problem. Who is it who refuses to act? Those are the ones who are leading our nation to a Sodomic end. Who are those who are blocking action — who are those who complain about the increase in use of food stamps, and then claim that’s a problem of Obama’s doing, and not their own?

    They need help… how, food stamps? 23 million unemployed is whose fault?

    The supply siders are at fault, as I said. Those who ignored the housing bubble, those who relaxed regulations on banks and investment houses, those who repealed Glass-Steagall with a promise of increased regulation, but then filibustered the funding of that increased regulation. Those who still filibuster the appointment of a permanent head of the Consumer Protection Agency — anyone who stated opposition to the appointment of Elizabeth Warren. We can name them — but they are shameless, and they laugh at starving children, carrying the names of any who die as badges of honor. They are really perverse.

    If there is starving children is this country then Obama has failed…hasnt he?

    Obama has failed in shaming those wretches, yes. His work to stop the starvation deserves praise. Paul Ryan promisese to strip food stamps from at least 20 percent of the starving, maybe 50 percent.

    perhaps its time to let the other lot in after all they were right on welfare reform when Clinton was Prez…maybe some tough love is required.

    See what I mean? The wolf already ate Granny, and you say, “Let Red Riding Hood learn to be wary — don’t warn her about the Wolf, and for God’s sake don’t let the Woodman into that room to save her. She needs to learn discipline, or die.”

    She’ll die, you’ll chalk it up to “tough love.”

    Hard hearted. Of course, in the end, people starving cost a lot more money than feeding them. Hard hearted and soft-headed.

    That’s not Obama.

    I pointed out: Pregnancy through rape is considered a crime. It’s a war crime in international conflict, and now, a crime against humanity. I don’t think we really should be condoning fruits of what is a war crime, even if the Catholic Church really does.”

    So men are at war with women?, please…. Rape is terrible and is “an intrinsically evil act,” meaning that it is evil at its very root, nothing justifies it, and it is objectively a mortal sin. . but so is infancide/abortion .

    Don’t pull a “my crime is worse than your crime” trick here. You cannot claim to be pro-life, when you propose to punish women for having been raped, and when you do nothing to prevent infanticide, but instead appear to favor it.

    As Christians, we bear the cross and suffer for the love of God. Consequently, a mother who encounters pregnancy through rape , must love as Christ would truly love, and give life to the innocent child.

    That’s not what the Bible says. It’s not Old Testament doctrine. Don’t make stuff up and claim to speaking for Jesus. False prophecy is similarly a crime.

    For a mother who is the victim of the violence of an unjust aggressor to take the life of an innocent unborn child would make her now the unjust aggressor.

    No, the sin remains on the head of the rapist. Have you ever studied Christianity?

    Like this

  14. JamesK says:

    David writes:
    Ah, and abortion will fix all that.

    Gee..you sure love misreading what people say so you can attack what you want to pretend they said instead of what they actually said. Typical republican to engage in a debate while living in a fantasy world instead of dealing with reality.

    My statement about children going hungry in this country had nothing to do with abortion. It had to do with showing you that your party is not pro-life. You might want to recognize the difference.

    To quote:they need help… how, food stamps?

    That’s one answer yes. You are aware how much a person gets per meal to spend with food stamps right? It’s $1.35. And your party wants to cut that by 25%. Why don’t you try putting together a filling and healthy meal on $1.35. If you’re so sure of your convictions on the subject then you should have absolutely no problem in challenging them and putting your money where your mouth is. Or perhaps it’s putting your stomach where your mouth is. But don’t worry..I won’t hold my breath on you acting with any sort of principle or morality just as I sure as hell haven’t seen your party providing any solutions or acting with any sort of principles or morality.

    To quote:
    23 million unemployed is whose fault?

    Gee..you mean besides Bush and the GOP for crashing the economy and letting Wall Street run out of control? Bush was losing 300,000 jobs per month..in fact he is the only President in modern history to have lost more jobs during his Presidency then was created. Even Obamas has done a better job then him. And MIttens? He wants to continue the same exact policies that got us into this mess. Last time I checked, the AA’s definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. Do you honestly think gutting the safety net and giving the 1% 4 trillion dollars in tax cuts is going to result in anything but the destruction of the middle class, making the poor even poorer and crashing the economy beyond repair? There simply isn’t enough rich people, child, to sustain the economy. You can give them all the money in the world and absolutely no good and certainly no jobs and no prosperity will come of it. The proof? Because that’s all your party did for 8 years during Bush and the result was the Great Depression.

    To quote:
    If there is starving children is this country then Obama has failed…hasnt he? perhaps its time to let the other lot in after all they were right on welfare reform when Clinton was Prez…maybe some tough love is required.

    Yeha except all those starving children also existed when Bush was in office and the GOP controlled Congress. So according to you they failed. And we should let them have power when they’re the ones that ****** the country over in the first place? Hell your party wants to create even more starving children and make their families even poorer just to give the 1% more tax cuts that will accomplish nothing.

    As for welfare..yeah I know you’ve been spoonfed otherwise and you apparently have no ability to think for yourself…but Obama has never loosened the welfare/work requirements. What he did was grant waivers to the states, especially Republican states, that wanted to abide by their own rules. You know..just like Mitt romney requested of George W Bush when he was governor. I thought the GOP liked it when the federal government let the states decide things on their own? Or has your party jettisoned that idea long with its jettisoning being actual Republicans?

    To quote:As Christians, we bear the cross and suffer for the love of God.

    First off making women who’ve gotten pregnant through rape is just going through the trauma of being raped over and over again. Secondly..not everyone in this country is Christian and you, wannabe Christian Taliban, have no right to force anyone to live by your religious beliefs.

    Let me make this clear and understand I say this as a lifelong Christian…..

    THE LAWS OF THE UNITED STATES DO NOT IN ANY WAY ANSWER TO THE BIBLE OR ANYONE’S RELIGIOUS BELIEFS.

    Your party wants to conjure the boogyman of creeping Sharia law in this country? Then your party should stop trying to create the Christian version of Afghanistan under the Taliban.

    And I sure as hell haven’t seen your party ponying up any money to help those women take care of those kids, I sure as hell haven’t seen you conservative Christians adopting all the kids that are in the foster system. I sure as hell haven’t seen you or your ilk make damn sure that every child and every mother has the absolute best health care in the world. In fact your party wants to gut the entire safety net and dump all those women and all those children out onto the streets with absolutely noone around to help them.

    You and your party’s claim to “being the party of pro-life” is nothing but a facade to cover your real desire..to tell women what to do..to control them. And in that vein you are absolutely no different then how the Taliban treat their women.

    You and your party want to claim to be the party of small government? Then you should recognize that you are contradicting that principle wholesale when it comes to your position on abortion.

    Until you and yours are willing to actually be the party of pro life..to make sure that life is taken care and has what it needs to sustain itself and prosper then you and your party, when it comes to being pro-life, are nothing but the party of sociopathic liars.

    Sorry, David, I’m a former Republican from back when the party was actually Republican and actually moral and actually rational and sane. I know the playbook and you, David, are in way over your head here.

    You and your fellow Republicans and your fellow conservatives are nothing but utter fakes. You are fake Republicans and you are fake conservatives.

    Call yourselves what you really are…fascists.

    You want proof that you’re not really Republican or conservative? Read Barry Goldwater’s “Conscience of a Conservative.” Then maybe you’ll see exactly how far from that grace you’ve fallen.

    Like this

  15. David xavier says:

    “There are quite a lot of children in this country going hungry and starving and your party won’t lift a finger to help. And you want to talk about being pro-life? Oh please”

    Ah, and abortion will fix all that. Havent met a child yet who wishes he wasnt born. A lot of children going hungry and starving…in America, oh Please ? Whose fault is that? They need help… how, food stamps? 23 million unemployed is whose fault? If there is starving children is this country then Obama has failed…hasnt he? perhaps its time to let the other lot in after all they were right on welfare reform when Clinton was Prez…maybe some tough love is required.

    “Pregnancy through rape is considered a crime. It’s a war crime in international conflict, and now, a crime against humanity. I don’t think we really should be condoning fruits of what is a war crime, even if the Catholic Church really does.”

    So men are at war with women?, please…. Rape is terrible and is “an intrinsically evil act,” meaning that it is evil at its very root, nothing justifies it, and it is objectively a mortal sin. . but so is infancide/abortion . As Christians, we bear the cross and suffer for the love of God. Consequently, a mother who encounters pregnancy through rape , must love as Christ would truly love, and give life to the innocent child. For a mother who is the victim of the violence of an unjust aggressor to take the life of an innocent unborn child would make her now the unjust aggressor.

    Like this

  16. JamesK says:

    Sorry, the Catholic church, on abortion, makes exception for the life of the mother. It used to make exceptions for rape and incest but not sure if it does anymore.

    As for this “Then there’s Obama’s ‘odd’ views on abortion and his refusal to do anything about infanticide . Stupid…nar …he be ‘naunced’”

    Yeah first off his views aren’t odd. As for any infanticide…yeah let me know, David, when your party is going to support paying for making sure everyone, especially mothers and their unborn babies and their born babies, having the absolute best health care in the world.

    Until then the actual odd views when it comes to abortion is the GOP and the right wing who say they are pro-life but don’t actually care enough about life to do anything to help it or protect it. They aren’t pro-life..what they are is pro-telling women what to do and controlling women. Your party sure loves to be the party of “keeping government out of people’s lives” unless of course it involves a woman’s vagina or two guys having sex.

    There are quite a lot of children in this country going hungry and starving and your party won’t lift a finger to help. And you want to talk about being pro-life? Oh please.

    Like this

  17. Ed Darrell says:

    So rape or consensual , it doesnt matter, the life of the baby trumps all. This is a rather extreme position – it is though the Catholic Church’s position , so it isn’t uncommon.

    Pregnancy through rape is considered a crime. It’s a war crime in international conflict, and now, a crime against humanity. I don’t think we really should be condoning fruits of what is a war crime, even if the Catholic Church really does.

    Like this

  18. David xavier says:

    mmmh, I think the good senator hopeful was merely trying express his position as absolute ‘pro-life’ regardless of how the pregnancy occurred. So rape or consensual , it doesnt matter, the life of the baby trumps all. This is a rather extreme position – it is though the Catholic Church’s position , so it isn’t uncommon. So , in that context – a baby out of wedlock consensual or a baby due to rape ,- conceptually they are ‘similar’ when considering what to do. and what to do is to choose life for the child. So he was clumsy how he answered the question. But his position is hardly stupid or odd, it is one borne of principle…an unwanted child ( consensual or from rape) shouldnt be scarificed no matter what.

    I understand that Julian Assange is being pursued by Sweden of charges of rape- he had unprotected sex with a woman against her will. They had had sex the nite before and he started again in the morning which woke her up and he wasnt using protection. Is this ‘rape’ – some of the liberal fraternity believe it’s not because Julian Assange is an important man that shares the same world view as they. Are they stupid? And who can forget Hollywood’s reaction to Roman Polanski arrest …drugging and sodomising a 14 year old girl isnt ‘rape’ rape is it? Is Hollywood stupid.

    Then there’s Obama’s ‘odd’ views on abortion and his refusal to do anything about infanticide . Stupid…nar …he be ‘naunced’.

    Like this

  19. JamesK says:

    Then there is the recent GOP love affair with returning to the gold standard.

    Gee..I wonder who that would benefit…who would possibly benefit from the middle class and the poor being stripped of every dollar they own….

    Like this

  20. JamesK says:

    Then there is the GOP’s picking small business owners to speak at the convention..the convention themed “We built it” as meaning government didn’t have a thing to do with it….and all the small business owners have gotten loans and contracts from the federal government.

    Not only is the GOP ignorant…they’re incoherent too.

    Like this

  21. jsojourner says:

    Look who has already been elected, Ed. Senator Rand Paul says a business owner has the right to choose not to serve customers who are African American or Latino. Congresswoman Michelle Bachmann has said — several times — that President Obama hatched a secret plan to put Evangelical Christian youths into reeducation camps. Congressman Allen West doubled down on his factless allegation that almost 80% of Democrats in Congress are secretly members of the Communist Party. Congressman Spencer Bachus claims the average wage for a starting GM Assembly Line Worker is $75,00 an hour. Virginia Attorney General Ken Cucinelli insists it is a federal offense to kill rats in the District of Columbia because Democrats are for “animal rights”.

    That’s just a sampling of the wide, varied whoppers elected Republicans tell. Do Democrats lie? Oh, you bet we do. And shame on us. But I am not sure of any Democrats telling lies that are this blatant or egregious. When Congresswoman Cynthia McKinney claimed George W. Bush was behind the 9/11 attacks,,,even before Republicans could complain, she was excoriated by the leadership of the Democratic Party. When she doubled down, the Democratic Party primaried her.

    Is it any wonder the Republican party has nominated serial liar Willard Mint Rawmoney to be their Presidential standard-bearer?

    Like this

  22. Ed Darrell says:

    How many others in other states? One site listed the top five wackoes running for national offices this year — Orly Taitz was #5 and Tom Smith and Todd Akin didn’t even make the list.

    Like this

  23. Squathole says:

    I covered this today, too. It’s Pennsylvania’s bid to morph into the Keystone State of Teabillies.

    Like this

  24. JamesK says:

    Well we could start a list of the right wing crazies and their ideas……

    …..but I’m not sure the Internet has that much bandwith…

    Like this

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