Quote of the moment: Potter Stewart, on the freedom to procreate without government intrusion


Justice Potter Stewart, official portrait in the U.S. Supreme Court. Artist: Ruth A. Nestor Hamilton. Oyez image.

Justice Potter Stewart, official portrait in the U.S. Supreme Court. Artist: Ruth A. Nestor Hamilton. Oyez image.

Several decisions of this Court make clear that freedom of personal choice in matters of marriage and family life is one of the liberties protected by the Due Process Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment. [...] As recently as last Term, in Eisenstadt v. Baird, 405 U. S. 438, 405 U. S. 453, we recognized “the right of the individual, married or single, to be free from unwarranted governmental intrusion into matters so fundamentally affecting a person as the decision whether to bear or beget a child.” That right necessarily includes the right of a woman to decide whether or not to terminate her pregnancy.

Potter Stewart (1915-1985) US Supreme Court Justice (1959-81)
Roe v. Wade, 410 U.S. 113, 169-170 (1973) [Concurring]
(Source)

Links added here, except “Source.”  Handing the scrub brush to WIST, so WIST may tip it to itself.

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23 Responses to Quote of the moment: Potter Stewart, on the freedom to procreate without government intrusion

  1. JamesK says:

    You know, Jim, I’m getting awfully tired of the conservative tactic of running away when they get backed into a corner…

    Like

  2. Jim says:

    ::: crickets :::

    I thought so.

    Like

  3. JamesK says:

    So where is the pro-life or social justice here, Joe? After all, your party wants to cut welfare for the poor..while giving the rich and corporations ever more welfare.

    http://thinkbynumbers.org/government-spending/corporate-welfare/corporate-welfare-statistics-vs-social-welfare-statistics/

    About $59 billion is spent on traditional social welfare programs. $92 billion is spent on corporate subsidies. So, the government spent 50% more on corporate welfare than it did on food stamps and housing assistance in 2006.

    Hm..we spend double on corporate welfare then what we spend on traditional welfare…and yet your party has slashed traditional welfare…

    So..again..where is the pro-life and social justice there, Joe?

    Like

  4. JamesK says:

    Here’s some quotes demonstrating the concern for life and social justice of the Republicans: http://www.addictinginfo.org/2012/09/04/40-quotes-demonstrating-the-conservative-values-republicans-want-to-destroy-america-with/

    1. “Our nation needs to stop doing for people what they can and should do for themselves. Self reliance means, if anyone will not work, neither should he eat.”
    ~Michele Bachmann, saying the unemployed should starve.

    2. “One of the things I will talk about, that no president has talked about before, is I think the dangers of contraception in this country. It’s not okay. It’s a license to do things in a sexual realm that is counter to how things are supposed to be. [Sex] is supposed to be within marriage. It’s supposed to be for purposes that are yes, conjugal…but also procreative. That’s the perfect way that a sexual union should happen…This is special and it needs to be seen as special.”
    ~Rick Santorum, opposing contraception and frighteningly suggesting that he would make pre-marital sex illegal.

    3. “You don’t have a right to a house, you don’t have a right to a job, you don’t have a right to medical care.”
    ~Ron Paul, saying that Americans have no right to have jobs and health care.

    4. If we took away the minimum wage—if conceivably it was gone—we could potentially virtually wipe out unemployment completely.”
    ~Michele Bachmann, advocating for slave wages.

    5. ”I don’t want to make black people’s lives better by giving them other people’s money. I want to give them the opportunity to go out and earn their money and provide for themselves and their families. The best way to do that is to get the manufacturing sector of the economy rolling.”
    ~Rick Santorum, saying that he has no interest in helping the African-American community.

    6. “Now, we don’t get rid of it in round one because we don’t think that that’s politically smart, and we don’t think that’s the right way to go through a transition. But we believe it’s going to wither on the vine because we think people are voluntarily going to leave it — voluntarily.”
    ~Newt Gingrich, admitting that while they won’t kill Medicare outright, Republicans will try to make it wither on the vine and die.

    7. “I think some of our members may have thought the default issue was a hostage you might take a chance at shooting. Most of us didn’t think that. What we did learn is this — it’s a hostage that’s worth ransoming. And it focuses the Congress on something that must be done.”
    ~Mitch McConnell, saying Republicans would take America hostage to get their own way.

    8. “Capital punishment is our way of demonstrating the sanctity of life.”
    ~Republican Senator Orrin Hatch, declaring that executing people is pro-life.

    9. “I’m not concerned about the very poor, we have a safety net there, if we need to repair, I’ll fix it. I’m not concerned about the very rich, they’re doing just fine. I’m concerned about the very heart of America, the 90-95 percent of Americans who are struggling, and I’ll continue to take that message across the country.”
    ~Mitt Romney, admitting he doesn’t care about the poor.

    10. ⁠“That’s part of the problem, the overkill. And when they make it complicated, they make it expensive and so then you can no longer stay in business.”
    ~Michele Bachmann, telling reporters that food needs to be less regulated in the midst of food borne illnesses and the pink slime outrage.

    11. “Let Detroit go bankrupt.”
    ~Mitt Romney, advocating for the end of the American auto industry.

    12. “The single most important thing we want to achieve is for President Obama to be a one-term President.”
    ~Mitch McConnell, admitting what the only priority Republicans have had since 2008.

    13. ⁠“If there is support for a supplemental, it would be accompanied by support for having pay-fors to that supplemental.”
    ~Eric Cantor, denying aid to victims of natural disasters.

    14. “I love that we are one of the least unionized states in the country…We don’t have unions in South Carolina because we don’t need unions in South Carolina…And we’ll make the unions understand full well that they are not needed, not wanted, and not welcome.”
    ~Nikki Haley, attacking labor unions that protect American jobs and worker rights.

    15. ”Yes. That’s exactly what I’m saying and I’ve been saying this for six months.”
    ~Mike Lee, in response to Chris Matthews who asked Lee “You want the Democratic Senate, by a two-thirds vote, to pass a constitutional amendment or you want the house to come down?”

    16. “They can get married. They can marry a man if they’re a woman. Or they can marry a woman if they’re a man… there are no special rights for people based upon your sex practices. There’s no special rights based upon what you do in your sex life. You’re an American citizen first and foremost and that’s it.”
    ~Michele Bachmann, on whether homosexuals can get married.

    17. “We need to take on the teachers’ union once and for all.”
    ~Chris Christie, attacking teachers and labor unions.

    18. “It is tragic what we do in the poorest neighborhoods, entrapping children in child laws which are truly stupid…These schools should get rid of unionized janitors, have one master janitor, pay local students to take care of the school.”
    ~Newt Gingrich, advocating for an end to child labor laws so businesses can fire union workers and replace them with cheap labor.

    19. “The idea is that the state doesn’t have rights to limit individuals’ wants and passions. I disagree with that. I think we absolutely have rights because there are consequences to letting people live out whatever wants or passions they desire.”
    ~Rick Santorum, declaring that government has the right to limit people from pursuing their dreams.

    20. “Don’t try to stop the foreclosure process. Let it run its course and hit the bottom.”
    ~Mitt Romney, cheering on foreclosures that make people homeless.

    21. “One more time? We’ve done this. We’ve done this at least four times where there’s a new government program to help homeowners who have trouble with their mortgages. None of these programs have worked. I don’t know why anyone would think that this next idea is going to work. All it does is delay the clearing of the market. As soon as the market clears and we understand where the prices really are — [that] will be the most important thing we can do in order to improve home values around the country.”
    ~John Boehner, cheering on foreclosures that make people homeless.

    22. “What I don’t like from the president’s administration is this sort of, ‘I’ll put my boot heel on the throat of BP.’ I think that sounds really un-American in his criticism of business. I’ve heard nothing from BP about not paying for the spill. And I think it’s part of this sort of blame-game society in the sense that it’s always got to be someone’s fault instead of the fact that sometimes accidents happen.”
    ~Rand Paul, defending BP, the company that irresponsibly caused a massive oil spill in the Gulf.

    23. “[Election Day Registration led to]the kids coming out of the schools and basically doing what I did when I was a kid, which is voting as a liberal. That’s what kids do — they don’t have life experience, and they just vote their feelings.”
    ~GOP New Hampshire House Speaker William O’ Brien, saying college students shouldn’t be allowed to vote because they vote liberal.

    24. “But, you know, I’m presiding over an institution that was designed not to work.”
    ~John Boehner, admitting that the Republican controlled House doesn’t work.

    25. “I almost wish that there would be something like a simultaneous telecast and all Americans would be forced, forced — at gun point no less — to listen to every David Barton message.” ~Mike Huckabee, advocating for forcing Americans at gunpoint to listen to a religious fanatic and fake historian.

    26. Suffering, if you’re a Christian, suffering is a part of life. And it’s not a bad thing, it is an essential thing in life … There are all different ways to suffer. One way to suffer is through lack of food and shelter and there’s another way to suffer which is lack of dignity and hope and there’s all sorts of ways that people suffer and it’s not just tangible, it’s also intangible and we have to consider both.”
    ~Rick Santorum, saying that Americans should suffer because suffering is good

    27. “It would help the poor people who need jobs. Minimum wage is a mandate. We’re against mandates so why should we have it? It would be very beneficial.”
    ~Ron Paul, saying that abolishing the minimum wage would help poor people.

    28. “The bottom line is, the greater meltdown over the long-term for this country is having the government inject itself into the private sector in such a huge way. Allow the capitalist system to work, and that’s what I believe in. The same thing with GM and Chrysler, they could’ve gone through a structured bankruptcy and the only difference between those two companies coming out of bankruptcy and the bailout that Obama put in place was that the unions wouldn’t have a big ownership share of the company…You pretty much would’ve had the same company, maybe even a better company, because they would’ve been stripped of even more legacy costs that frankly makes it hard for them to be competitive.”
    ~Rick Santorum, saying we should have let the American auto industry fail, decimating millions of jobs

    29. “Planned Parenthood, we’re going to get rid of that.”
    ~Mitt Romney, pledging to rid the world of women’s health services.

    30. “Last week, we worked on some welfare reform bills. And here, it’s kind of ironic, I’ll read you this little funny clip that we got from a friend. It says, ‘Isn’t it ironic that the food stamp program, part of the Department of Agriculture, is pleased to be distributing the greatest amount of food stamps ever. Meanwhile, the Park Service, also part of the Department of Agriculture, asks us to please not feed the animals, because the animals may grow dependent and not learn to take care of themselves.”
    ~Minnesota State Rep. Mary Franson, comparing the poor to wild animals.

    31. “Well, higher-income people don’t have to pay taxes if they don’t want to because they can move their money somewhere else, they can move their investments. They can stop investing. They can stop working. They don’t need to work. They’re higher-income people.”
    ~Rick Santorum, saying rich people don’t have to pay taxes because they are rich.

    32. “Life gives us many experiences. It give us the experience- or I’ve had the experience of delivering calves dead and alive, delivering pigs dead and alive, and I want to tell you, Rep. McCall, Rep. Roberts, all of us, Rep. Anderson, that have done that, Rep. Black, that have done that, it breaks our hearts to see those animals not make it. Ya know a few years ago, I had a young man come to me in our store, and it was when we were debating- talking about dog and hog hunting I believe- and at that point there was some language inserted in there that dealt with chicken fighting. And young man called me to the side and said ‘I want to tell you something.’ And y’all, this is salt of the earth people I’m talking about. Someone I would never have expected in 100 years to tell me what he told me that day. ‘Mr Terry, I want to tell you something. Tell those folks down there that when they stop killing babies, I’ll give them every chicken I’ve got.’”
    ~Georgia State Rep. Terry England, comparing women to livestock.

    33. “Like I said, after this last election, the first order of business is pass a budget. Now, I believe that. I supported the Paul Ryan budget and sent it over to the Senate. Now I live with some Senators, I yell at them all the time, I grabbed one of them the other day and shook him and I’d love to get them to vote for it — boy I’d love that. You know but other than me going over there with a gun and holding it to their head and maybe killing a couple of them, I don’t think they’re going to listen unless they get beat.”
    ~Rep. John Sullivan, advocating for shooting Democratic Senators as a way to pass the destructive Ryan budget plan.

    34. “If I thought that the man’s signature was required… required, in order for a woman to have an abortion, I’d have a little more peace about it…”
    ~Alaska State Rep. Alan Dick, saying women should have to get permission from men to get an abortion.

    35. “Personally I’d like to make a law that mandates a woman watch an abortion being performed prior to having a “surgical procedure”. If it’s not a life it shouldn’t matter, if it doesn’t harm a woman then she shouldn’t care, and don’t we want more transparency and education in the medical profession anyway?”
    ~Arizona State Rep. Terry Proud, advocating for forcing women to watch abortions before having one.

    36. “We need a candidate who’s going to be a fighter for freedom. Who is going to get up and make that the central theme in this race because it is the central theme in this race. I don’t care what the unemployment rate’s going to be. Doesn’t matter to me. My campaign doesn’t hinge on unemployment rates and growth rates.”
    ~Rick Santorum, saying he doesn’t care about the unemployed.

    37. “All we have to do is replace Obama. We are not auditioning for fearless leader. We don’t need a president to tell us in what direction to go. We know what direction to go. We want the Ryan budget. We just need a president to sign this stuff. We don’t need someone to think it up or design it. The leadership now for the modern conservative movement for the next 20 years will be coming out of the House and the Senate. Pick a Republican with enough working digits to handle a pen to become president of the United States. This is a change for Republicans: the House and Senate doing the work with the president signing bills. His job is to be captain of the team, to sign the legislation that has already been prepared.”
    ~Grover Norquist, saying Republicans should elect a puppet President who will sign every destructive bill conservative extremists pass.

    38. “We have no one in the state of North Carolina living in extreme poverty. We might governmentally say they are, but they’re not. Extreme poverty is that you’re out there living on a dollar and a half a day. I don’t think we have anybody in North Carolina doing that.”
    ~North Carolina State Rep. George Cleveland, claiming that extreme poverty doesn’t exist.

    39. “There is income inequality in America. There always has been and hopefully, and I do say that, there always will be. Why? Because people rise to different levels of success based on what they contribute to society and to the marketplace and that’s as it should be. We shouldn’t have a society that has a President who envies or creates class warfare or envy between one group of people and another. We should celebrate like we do in the small towns all across American as you do here in Detroit. You celebrate success. You build statues and monuments. Buildings, you name after them. Why? Because in their greatness and innovation, yes, they created wealth, but they created wealth for everybody else. And that’s a good thing, not something to be condemned in America.”
    ~Rick Santorum, singing the praises of income inequality.

    40. ⁠”Well, you can make the argument that if she doesn’t have this baby, if she kills her child, that that, too, could ruin her life. And this is not an easy choice. I understand that. As horrible as the way that that son or daughter and son was created, it still is her child. And whether she has that child or doesn’t, it will always be her child. And she will always know that. And so to embrace her and to love her and to support her and get her through this very difficult time, I’ve always, you know, I believe and I think the right approach is to accept this horribly created — in the sense of rape — but nevertheless a gift in a very broken way, the gift of human life, and accept what God has given to you. As you know, we have to, in lots of different aspects of our life. We have horrible things happen. I can’t think of anything more horrible. But, nevertheless, we have to make the best out of a bad situation.”
    ~Rick Santorum, saying women who are raped should get over it and accept her rapist’s baby as a gift from God.

    Oh wait….those were quotes proving the GOP’s complete disregard for life and social justice.

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  5. JamesK says:

    Yeah it’s “Democratic Farmer Labor” party in this state. The two merged in 1944.

    As for Joe: And if the government has a responsibility towards social justice, Joe, then you should have no problem with the government doing something about this:

    In income equality the United States now ranks 93rd. Iran, China, and India are ahead of us on that list.

    And of course you’re willing to pay higher taxes to take care of all those babies that you want born and all those mothers you want to force to give birth?

    Because you surely wouldn’t want to, while claiming the mantle of social justice, forget that by demanding what you want you are assuming responsibility for the consequences of it.

    But tell me..where is the pro-life in laws that require women to get ultrasounds? Where is the pro-life in requiring that all stillbirths be investigated as possible murder? And how come your side is oh so pro-life or so it claims to unborn babies..but you’re oh so anti-life in supporting the death penalty and opposing all gun control?

    A woman’s vagina should have more regulations placed on it then an AK-47? Really?

    And when you make abortion illegal and both unborn babies and their mothers are dying in back alleys are you going to take responsibility for that? Because in that situation it will have been you and yours, Joe, that forced their deaths. Are you going to go to all those families and tell them their daughters deserved to die in the name of your religious beliefs? Because I promise you that if one of my female cousins died because of a back alley abortion and you showed up in my town to tell my family that she deserved to die..you wouldn’t get out of town in one piece.

    As Ed correctly said..your side isn’t pro-life..it’s pro-control of women. Your “prolife crowd” is run by a bunch of old white men who just can’t stand it that women are having sex or want to have sex.

    As this shows: http://freakoutnation.com/2013/08/31/tea-party-speaker-sex-isnt-about-fun-if-you-want-to-have-fun-read-a-book/comment-page-3/
    To quote Jerome Corsi of Whacked Nuts Daily: “If you want to have fun, read a book, go to a movie. Sex is about the procreation of children. It’s a sacred responsibility that is meant by God to have men and women commit their lifetime to children.”

    Oh look..its about imposing your sides supposed religious beliefs on everyone else.

    So much for being pro-life.

    To quote Joe: Bearing or begetting children does not end at birth.

    Neither does being pro-life. And yet you and your party think it does. From refusing to cover everyone with health care to kicking people including children off food stamps and so much more your party demonstrates, Joe, that it simply doesn’t give a damn about life after its born. Hell with quite a lot of scientists fleeing the country because of your party’s desire for austerity..that too is proof that your party doesn’t give a damn about human life really.

    It just wants to tell women what to do.

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  6. Jim says:

    James/Nick,

    Yeah — I am pretty close to his district. We were sure glad to see the back of him. But the guy who takes the cake is family values, born again Republican Scott DeJarlais. He impregnated his mistress and then gave her some money to have an abortion.

    The Tea Partiers re-elected him in 2012! Unbelievable.

    Meanwhile, I am going to have to pay someone to come here and dust me once in awhile…while I wait for answers to my questions. Any guesses as to how long this is going to take?

    Jim

    PS: Great catch on the Truman quote in the other thread. The DFL bit threw me. I was torn between McCarthy and Humphrey.

    Like

  7. JamesK says:

    And lets not forget deadbeat “prolife” politicians like Joe Walsh…

    Apparently he’s so pro-life it caused to neglect to pay child support.

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  8. Jim says:

    Nick/James offers…

    “You forgot a question, jim.

    That being “Are you going to imprison the man who got the woman pregnant who had an abortion?”

    I sorta lumped him in with ‘whoever else facilitates the abortion’, as very often it’s the ‘boyfriend’ paying for and/or driving the woman to the clinic. But good point. A lot of them are such lousy deadbeats, they won’t do that much.

    And our nice, polite, supposedly Christian society shames and blames the woman. To the man, the very worst they will say is, “You sinned. Now ask forgiveness and don’t do it again.” And most of the time, the attitude is…”boys will be boys” and the poor lad was probably seduced anyway. ::: eyeroll :::

    Still hoping someone in favor of criminalizing abortion will respond to my OP. Thanks so much and God bless!

    Jim

    Like

  9. JamesK says:

    To quote: James, I’m sure you’ll be there in person at our church next week to call me and my brothers and sisters hypocrites as we (as collective churches) seek to care for those in foster care and those in need of adoption by taking the issue head on.

    The question is why aren’t you doing so? Because clearly the need isn’t being met so why aren’t you demanding that your own fellow so called prolifers step up to the plate and take responsibility? Why aren’t you demanding that your party actually help parents by ensuring they earn enough money? or why aren’t you demanding that your party stop its war on contraception? When are you going to demand that your party ensure that everyone has good health care even if the government has to be the middleman for it? WHen are you going to demand that your party do something about the poor, the homeless and the hungry that isn’t just insulting them or turning them into criminals as NC wants to do?

    My problem with you Joe isn’t that you claim to be pro-life..its that you and your side fail so completely at it. You and yours half-A** it.

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  10. JamesK says:

    To quote: This is an important point of contention…the role of government vs. personal freedom.

    Oh you mean like when your party was whining that the ACA takes away personal freedom? Yeah curious how you guys were oh so for not having the government make medical decisions, even though the ACA does no such thing, but you’re oh so for the government making medical decisions when it comes to abortion.

    And I donate to several charities on the subject, Joe. So when are you and your party going to demand that everyone have adequate health care? Adequate food and shelter? adequate education? If you want the government to dictate that every woman must give birth then you should have no problem in the government dictating the providing of those things.

    To quote: Governments must have power to enforce social justice. That’s one of the largest reasons for their existence.

    And yet you want that government to disappear completely when it comes to providing health care and such. You want the government out of the equation when it comes to the social justice of ensuring that people working are earning at least a livable wage.

    As for the “any time any where” thing..feel free to provide evidence of it. From credible independent sources please.

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  11. JamesK says:

    Oh and another one would be “Are you going to hold criminally responsible those who made abortion illegal who are responsible for women having illegal abortions and dying from them?”

    People like Joe want to replace a river of blood with an ocean of blood and think they’re accomplishing something. Why? Because they’re asinine enough to think that if you make abortion illegal that it will *snaps fingers* go away.

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  12. JamesK says:

    You forgot a question, jim.

    That being “Are you going to imprison the man who got the woman pregnant who had an abortion?”

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  13. Jim says:

    For my friends who favor the criminalization of abortion, I’d be most grateful if you would kindly answer the following questions…

    1. What punishment would you recommend for abortion?
    2. Who, exactly, would you punish? The person who performs the abortion? The person who assists or otherwise facilitates it? The woman who undergoes it?
    3. Where will funding come from to create an effective layer of law enforcement to investigate and interdict offenders?
    4. Where will funding come from to hire enough legal personnel who can clear court calenders in order to try offenders?
    5. Presuming you have prescribed a punishment for some or all of those involved in an abortion, where will the funding come from to facilitate punishment? Our prisons and jails are already bursting at the seams.

    I suppose one solution would be to legalize all drugs. That would clear up court calenders and jail space. It would create a raft of other problems and there would still be the cost issue…

    As the adoptive parent of a child who was considered special needs at birth, I truly loathe most abortions. I affirm that there are far too many and that there are instances where people choose abortion simply because they don’t want to be bothered with a child. I love adoption. As a doting Daddy, I am forever grateful to President Bill Clinton for signing, and Democratic Senator Chris Dodd for championing, an adoption tax credit. Talk about being pro-life!

    But I have yet to hear one pro-criminalization person quantify how abortion — if made illegal — should be punished. And how such punishment will be made possible, both in terms of money and infrastructure.

    I urgently await your responses!

    Jim

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  14. lowerleavell says:

    Ed said, “But that doesn’t begin to get to the evil of saying the government has a right to rule a woman’s womb. I never forget that a government that has the power to tell a woman she must carry a fetus to term also has the power to tell her she must not.”

    This is an important point of contention…the role of government vs. personal freedom.

    By your logic, a government that has the power to tell you that you cannot commit murder has the power to tell you that you MUST commit murder. A government that tells you that it is wrong to rape someone can also tell you that you MUST rape someone.

    Governments must have power to enforce social justice. That’s one of the largest reasons for their existence. I remember reading of a founding father that was worried that the army would take over our country (I forget who it was now) and proposed that the army never exceed 3,000 soldiers. Someone shot him down quickly by saying that they would vote for it if it could be guaranteed that this army’s enemies would never exceed 2,000 soldiers. :-) The point is that our government must have the power to keep us free, and keep us safe. This is the same reason that euthanasia is illegal and why we don’t kill off those who are in mental hospitals. We have a right to life and the government has a moral and constitutional responsibility to defend it. They should have the power to do so in all cases where innocent life is threatened.

    To say that they should not have that power because that power can be used to do evil is to advocate the complete removal of our entire police force and army. Unless your logic or your understanding of the basic role of government is faulty…

    But a society that demands the death of the innocent cannot ever be governed morally. We have lost our moral compass as a society and until we regain our fear of God, we will continue to be tossed by public opinion and demands. This is a heart issue, not merely an economic and educational issue. Until you see this as a moral issue, you will have no reason to even desire to curb the existence of abortion.

    You again sit in defense of abortion in instances of rape and the life of the mother when women are marching in the streets with signs saying, “Any time any reason” and “Free abortions on demand without apology.” The “war on women” would be still labeled such if even ONE woman was told she cannot have an abortion for ONE reason at ANY time in her pregnancy. So no, Ed, I don’t buy that you are merely interested in defending a woman’s right to life and protection from being forced to bear a child from rape. In a perfect world issues such as rape and genetic dysfunction wouldn’t exist. But they do in about 2-5% of abortions. Yet in the world you are advocating, abortion would still exist because it’s a woman’s right to choose anytime, anywhere, any reason, no apologies. That’s a morally decrepit position and I don’t buy what you’re selling here.

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  15. lowerleavell says:

    James, I’m sure you’ll be there in person at our church next week to call me and my brothers and sisters hypocrites as we (as collective churches) seek to care for those in foster care and those in need of adoption by taking the issue head on.

    So…besides paying your taxes, how are YOU helping as I’m sure you wouldn’t be so brash as to me a hypocrite if you weren’t actively helping those in need as well.

    http://gateway.redemptionaz.com/resources/blog-posts/detail/foster-care-and-adoption/

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  16. lowerleavell says:

    Texas Bill:

    Sec. 171.045. EXCEPTIONS. (a) The prohibitions and
    requirements under Sections 171.042, 171.043, and 171.044 do not
    apply to an abortion performed if there exists a condition that, in
    the physician’s reasonable medical judgment, so complicates the
    medical condition of the woman that, to avert the woman’s death or a serious risk of substantial or irreversible physical impairment of
    a major bodily function, other than a psychological condition, it
    necessitates, as applicable:

    Ed, you usually do a good job of making sure you quote things accurately. Why such a blatant departure from the facts on this one?

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  17. James Kessler says:

    Prologue=pro life

    Sorry, you and your party are not pro life at all. You’re just pro birth and after the baby is born neither you nor any other conservative gives a damn about the child. The child could die and you would not lift a finger to save it.

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  18. James Kessler says:

    Joe, how many times have I told you you’re a hypocrite for claiming to be prologue? One would think it would occur to you that I’m possibly right

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  19. Ed Darrell says:

    Abortion survivors? From Bulgaria?

    Is it a body count issue? I thought we learned from Vietnam that’s a bad idea.

    This is illegal under Texas law, at least until we strike it down — it used to be illegal under Irish law, until a pediatrician died for lack of medical help that was available to science, but illegal: http://thinkprogress.org/health/2013/08/23/2516291/ireland-legal-abortion/

    This woman in El Salvador would be required to be put to death under Texas law (again, until the courts overturn it): http://thinkprogress.org/health/2013/06/04/2096981/beatriz-abortion-stigma/

    Forcing rape victims to carry a fetus to term is a war crime in a war zone — it’s bad policy everywhere. But under Texas law, we’d have to cripple this 11-year old girl, too — under your view, Joe, she doesn’t have a right to life, not even in an orphanage: http://thinkprogress.org/health/2013/07/07/2261731/chile-rape-victim-abortion/

    Not sure how this one from the Dominican Republic plays out in Texas, but it’s the same in Missouri — you can’t cure cancer in a woman if it would damage the fetus, so the courts condemned both the mother and fetus to death — of course, no abortion was performed, so I suppose that meets your standard of “protecting life,” though both lives involved were lost: http://www.cnn.com/2012/08/18/world/americas/dominican-republic-abortion

    When you can get an anti-abortion law that doesn’t favor rapists, doesn’t kill young pediatricians, doesn’t prevent our curing cancers in young women (and mothers), and actually protects life, call us.

    In the meantime, government shouldn’t tell a woman she must not have an abortion, and the government shouldn’t tell your wife she must. As Potter Stewart recognized, some rights of families should be beyond Big Brother’s power, in a just nation, with a just government.

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  20. Ed Darrell says:

    I’m concerned about human life. You’re concerned about forcing other women to do your bidding. There’s a difference, but it’s probably not one you’ll acknowledge.

    Orphanages in Bulgaria for abandoned children? Compared to the GOP-preferred method of starving them to death, Bulgaria seems enlightened.

    No, I don’t think the old Christian notion of dumping children who are “unruly” is a good idea.

    But that doesn’t begin to get to the evil of saying the government has a right to rule a woman’s womb. I never forget that a government that has the power to tell a woman she must carry a fetus to term also has the power to tell her she must not.

    Because I oppose government-forced abortion, I also oppose government-forced pregnancies.

    It’s a lot like gay marriage. If you think it sinful, don’t.

    In the end, I know you’re not really concerned with reducing abortions, though. We know how to do that. We make jobs, we make pay for jobs decent — like raising the minimum wage to $15/hour — we provide outstanding and accurate sex education including the use and methods of contraception, we make contraception freely available (not free, however), and we make abortion safe and legal. We reduce abortions more if we provide support for mothers and their children through social programs that most conservatives won’t pay for (‘If they didn’t want their children to starve, they shouldn’t have had them!’).

    If we do those things, we reduce the number and rate of abortion — in some populations to just about zero. (See Switzerland’s experience.)

    But if we outlaw abortion, abortion numbers and rates increase.

    There’s a lot of collateral damage with illegal abortion. A lot of women die, too.

    But that’s just punishment that fits the crime you imagine, isn’t it?

    By the way, do you know what Bulgaria’s abortion laws are?

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  21. lowerleavell says:

    Considering no one bother to ask the “abortee” for their opinion on the matter, why not ask a survivor of saline abortion? I wonder what her own daughter’s opinion will be? Considering the high volume of victims she represents who cannot speak for themselves, let’s just say her opinion constitutes a vast majority.

    Like

  22. lowerleavell says:

    Bearing or begetting children does not end at birth. In fact, my wife would tell you that the actual pregnancy was the easy part and the hard work began when labor kicked in and beyond! In other countries parents (Bulgaria for one, where I have friends who work in orphanages) can abandon their unwanted children (though a certain age) to the state because they have the right to choose not to have children anymore. If a couple divorces and neither one wants the kid? To the orphanage the child goes.

    Would you advocate this kind of parenting “right” Ed? Should parents be free from governmental intrusion if they want freedom from the burden of their unruly preschooler?

    In other countries they send unwanted kids to orphanages. In this country, we burn babies to death with saline, we hack them up into little bits, suck them up, and throw their bodies into the dump heap.

    And we have the audacity of claiming the moral high ground over chemical weapons in Syria? What a joke.

    Like

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