Voting today in Wisconsin: Recall the Tea Party?

If Wisconsin voters have 401Ks or pension plans, you’d think it would be a complete rout in the six recall elections today in Wisconsin, no?

Here’s where we learn the perils of Americans who get their news from Fox News, and don’t read newspapers.

So, I get e-mail from the AFL-CIO Working Families Network — are you paying attention, Wisconsin?

Aug. 9, 2011

Wall Street greed
The Republican extremists who lit the fire that burned the nation’s credit rating work for a handful of billionaires and corporations. We didn’t say that. The corporate bible Forbes
said it

Wisconsin voters are going to the polls today to make history and recall the Walker 6. Those six are Gov. Scott Walker’s (R) closest state Senate allies who spearheaded his move to take away the collective bargaining rights of public employees and ram through a budget devastating to working families.

Read More

Got comments? Post them at

 Wall Street Gets Nervous About Who It Put in Office

Take Action: Tell Verizon to Stop Attacking the Middle Class

 New Taxes Won’t Turn Millionaires into Fleeing Tax Refugees

Would the AFL-CIO attract more voters if they noted the six Republicans are part of the Tea Party team that drove America’s financial future off the cliff? Wisconsin voters could send a message to Congress today, were they so inclined.


39 Responses to Voting today in Wisconsin: Recall the Tea Party?

  1. Ellie says:


    I keep them around for experimental purposes only. No, please don’t open the microwave.


  2. Jim says:

    Hi there, Ellie!

    I am giving Big Steve mad style points for turning the phrase, “a new set of choppers”. Even if he is wrong on the facts, he is fun to read.

    Why shouldn’t we have a little fun here? (You and Ed are oodles of fun but a couple of the other regulars just bore me to tears.)

    Oh, speaking of all things geriatric and dental…would Granny even NEED a new set of choppers if she didn’t eat all those sugar-coated candy peeps?

    Just sayin’…



  3. Pangolin says:

    ….Medicare does not cover dental plates or other dental devices. In general, the patient is responsible for 100% of dental expenses._Elle

    Only in the profit-blind United States can you look at a human body and conclude that the health of the mouth is somehow separate from the health of the system as a whole.

    Actually one of the reasons I know the “free market” types are full of baloney is because they are dead quiet on guild monopolies like the ADA, the AMA and the American Bar Association. It doesn’t take six years of post-secondary education to teach somebody to drill fillings and pack teeth. It’s just a bunch of b.s. put in the way to drive dental fees up. Likewise, elsewhere in the world your basic general practitioner is a four year degree instead of an eight year degree.

    There’s plenty of inefficiency that is protected by Republicans because it pays people who kick back money to the GOP. The Tea Party people are dead silent on this.


  4. Ellie says:

    Dear Big Steve, Re: Granny’s choppers

    Medicare does not cover dental plates. There are some discount insurance programs Granny could purchase, but Medicare does not cover dental plates or other dental devices. In general, the patient is responsible for 100% of dental expenses. Granny thanks you for thinking of her, though.


  5. Big Steve says:

    No, no, no. It’s not that anybody WANTS to make these cuts. It is simply that it must be done. Don’t ask me if I think it is right if little Johnny goes to school without breakfast or if Granny has to do without a new set of choppers. Everybody would like to be Santa, but the bag is empty. It’s time to think about what we can save, because we surely cannot save it all.


  6. Jim says:

    Howdy, Big Steve!

    Thanks so much for your response.

    It was a little short on specifics, so let me try to unpack it, okay? Perhaps if I ask about specific departments? And please, friends…any of you are welcome to respond with constructive answers. You guys and gals might just have some outstanding ideas no one has yet considered!

    Would you…

    Abolish the Department of Education? If so, what is your alternative plan for education?

    Abolish the Department of Health and Human Services? If so, how would you suggest we address the problems of vaccination, proper prenatal care, adequate food and housing for the poor and effective responses to disease?

    Abolish the Department of Transportation? If so, what do you propose be done to make certain aircraft fly safely…particularly in major metropolitan areas? Have you any suggestions for securing our rail lines and responding to derailments?

    Abolish the Department of Energy? If so, could you enumerate some alternative and less expensive ideas for the secure containment, transportation, regulation and storage of nuclear waste?

    Abolish the EPA? If so, what is your plan for keeping cancer-causing chemicals out of our water and air supply?

    Abolish the Department of the Treasury? If so, what shall we use for currency and who shall regulate it? Wampum is, I suppose, a possibility. But Ron and Rand Paul may have some other ideas involving gold. You tell me.

    Abolish the Department of Defense? If so, how do you propose we defend our nation from attack? What do you suggest we do if Kim Jong Il ever manages to develop both nuclear payloads AND missiles that actually work?

    Abolish the Department of Veterans’ Affairs? If so, what is your suggestion for caring for our wounded warriors?

    Abolish the Department of the Interior? If so, would you privatize national parks? Would that mean selling Yosemite to Wal Mart or whoever the highest bidder was? Could Gettysburg someday become “Gettysworld”? Inquiring minds want to know…

    Thanks for hearing me out, Big Steve. I hope you can move the conversation forward a bit with some concrete suggestions. Even “out of the box” ideas will be entertained. Like you, I’d be delighted to see spending reduced.

    Only one rule: persons responding should avoid “free market fairy dust” as a pat answer. It’s well and good to have a general sense of respect for and confidence in this nebulous thing we call “the free market”. It’s quite another thing to believe if we just cut spending and end taxation, the little libertarian road-and-bridge trolls will sneak out in the dark of night and magically create infrastructure.

    Have fun!



  7. Big Steve says:

    You don’t have to wait to die, but your numbers are surely shrinking. This week has been filled with attacks on Obama — from the Left. The very same people who voted him into office are screaming that he is screwing things up. Try it. Go to any news station, Internet site (even the radical ones), or magazine. You will find plenty of articles. The Left is finally questioning his abilities and inexperience.

    I’m glad to see the Left is waking up. I’ll be happy to let the Left walk with me down the road to success.

    But I’ll be telling them every minute about how much longer that road is due to their shortsighted policies.


  8. Ed Darrell says:

    Steve, we’re not broke. We’re not even close.

    We have a lot more money, and much better cash flow than our nation had in 1933 when we started the Civilian Conservation Corps and Works Progress Administration to put people back to work in “make work” jobs, plus we need work on roads and bridges nationwide. WE have a lot more money than we had in December 1941 when the U.S. Congress committed us to fight Japan, though we had essentially no weapons to do so. We have a lot more money and cash flow than we did when Gen. Marshall and Harry Truman proposed to send billions to help rebuild our enemies, the Japanese, Germans, and Italians, and our allies, the Soviets, the British and French — and thereby secured the Pax Americana.

    The question is, do we have the will to do what is right to make America great?

    You and the Tea Party say we should just fold up into a fetal position and wait to die.

    I reject that admonition.


  9. Big Steve says:

    Everybody wants to give free care to the elderly and free medical to everybody and free education for all students — but we are broke. We have given too much. Because of people like you, it is too late to talk about just cutting stupid programs like free education for illegals and giving $50,000 to anybody in Georgia who said they had once thought about farming. Because the left threw away money on all kinds of silly programs, now we have to cut essential programs. Keep reading the newspaper. You, of course, will cast blame on the Tea Party when these cuts occur. The rest of us will give them our thanks.


  10. Ellie says:

    Jim, you know what they want. No money for education, because an informed populace is not necessary, especially those who will be cleaning toilets anyway. No money for old folks, because if those of us who were stupid enough to marry poorly, or were unable to obtain jobs that paid enough to save for our Golden Years, or if we never had children to take care of us, that’s too bad. We can be put with a bowl to beg in the streets (I’m sure we’ll be in the Designated Begging Area) or perhaps they will be compassionate enough to bring back the Poorhouse. No money for police and firefighters. If we’re unprepared to be robbed or have our house burn, too bad. We should have planned better. No money for roads. We’ll let the corporations (who are, after all, persons) take care of the infrastructure. That bridge doesn’t look very safe? Don’t cross it. No money to take care of poor children. They shouldn’t have been born in the first place. No money for birth control. Women shouldn’t have sex if they don’t want children. Should I go on?

    Me, I’m not poor. I have more than one room in my domicile and I have both a refrigerator and an indoor toilet, so I don’t have to worry.


  11. Big Steve says:

    That’s easy, Jim. We shall cut almost everything. Maybe not today, but it will happen soon. Free Obamacare will not be free. Retirement age with Social Security will rise, and Social Security benefits will decrease. Unemployment checks will shrink. School programs will shrink or disappear. These, and thousands of others cuts, will happen because bleeding hearts think we can make people rich by shoveling money at them. In short, Jim, the money you want to spend is not yours and if we gave all of it to you, you would simply demand more.


  12. Jim says:

    Good afternoon, Big Steve! It’s good to have you here.

    You said, “The only thing the Tea Party stands for is cutting spending.”

    I disagree. But let’s assume, for the present, that you are correct. And let’s presume that you share the Tea Party’s passion for cost cutting.

    Would you be so kind as to lay out some of the spending cuts that you support? Perhaps you and I can find common ground. i support spending cuts, too. (Though I suspect we would differ on the issue of taxation.) Still…let’s see where we agree first.

    What shall we cut, Steve?



  13. Big Steve says:

    Well, golly. You said we’re not broke so that must be true. Let me try it. I’m rich and married to Christie Brinkley. Nope. It didn’t work. Everybody in the world can tell that I’m not rich or married to Christie Brinkley. And everybody in the world, (despite your protests) has been saying that America is broke. Nobody, except those who are getting entitlements or those who provide those entitlements, believes that we have enough money to continue down this path. Silly silly liberals.


  14. Ed Darrell says:

    Tea Party stands for cutting spending stupidly and spreading ignorance and snuffing out knowledge in any way possible.

    For example, they spread the hoax that as a nation, “We’re broke.” Not so

    E. J. Dionne wrote:

    “We’re broke, broke going on bankrupt,” Boehner said in a Feb. 28 Nashville speech. For Boehner, this “fact” justifies the $61 billion in domestic spending cuts House Republicans passed (cuts that would have a negligible impact on the long-term deficit). Boehner’s GOP colleagues want reductions in Head Start, student loans and scores of other programs voters like, and the only way to sell them is to cry catastrophe.

    Walker, of course, used the “we’re broke” rationale to justify his attack on public-worker collective bargaining rights. Yet the state’s supposedly “broke” status did not stop him from approving tax cuts before he began his war on unions and proposed all manner of budget cuts, including deep reductions in aid to public schools.

    In both cases, the fiscal issues are just an excuse for ideologically driven policies to lower taxes on well-off people and business while reducing government programs. Yet only occasionally do journalists step back to ask: Are these guys telling the truth?

    The admirable Web site examined Walker’s claim in detail and concluded flatly it was “false.”

    Read it and see.

    But understand that reading such pieces to get information is contrary to Tea Party dogma.


  15. Big Steve says:

    The only thing the Tea Party stands for is cutting spending. The only reason why the unions lost in Wisconsin is because the voters want to cut spending. We’re going broke.


  16. Ed Darrell says:

    Ben Franklin was a big proponent of Tolerance. So am I. I know I do not have all the answers. I know that my solutions, while they may work, are not the best always for everyone. If we increase our levels of tolerance for others ideas we can find those nuggets, those simple pearls of insight and inspiration that everyone exhibits at some point. AS a friend of mines mother used to say, “You should listen to everyone, you can even learn something from a fool!”

    Franklin was big on tolerance, especially with his 51st chapter of Genesis.

    But when his son sided with the British, Franklin cut him off. I don’t think they spoke again in Ben’s lifetime.

    Sitting on the fence is fine in good weather. These are the times that try men’s souls. Sunshine patriots don’t cut it. I regret you take offense at being asked to stand up for the right. But it’s time to stand up for what is right, and I don’t mean what is right-wing.


  17. James Kessler says:

    Thomas writes:

    The problem us the vitriol and hyperpartisanship on both sides.

    That us why I am a Mugwump.

    No..the problem is the vitriol and hyperpartisanship on the right wing. Knock off the stupid false equivalencies.

    The proof that the problem is the right wing and only the right wing? Last year they opposed a tax cut to the middle class. Why? Because Obama proposed it.

    Our health care system is downright insane and detrimental to the people of this country and do the Republicans help fix it? No..they block or attempt to block any change whatsoever…including changes that two Republicans by the names of Bob Dole and Orrin Hatch first proposed 15 years ago. You literally are having Republicans objecting to themselves just so they can sit there and spit in the eyes of everyone else.

    I am so sick and tired of this false equivalency bullshit that I could barf. And I am even more sick and tired of people like you telling the Democrat party to get along with the Republicans…as if the Democrats haven’t been doing that for years and generally getting their asses kicked for it. Enough playing nice. If the Republicans want to be bullies like my cousin Drew was when we were kids then the Democrats need to start doing the equivalent of my eventual response to my cousin Drew…to break his nose. After that Drew never tried to bully me again.

    Assuming that Pangolin’s analysis that you’re a libertarian is true I’ll be blunt with you. You do not get to ask the Democrats or any liberal to tone down any partisanship until you get your fellow right wingers to tone it down first. Because any partisanship by my side is far outdone by the partisanship to the point of willing to let the country fall crash and burn by yours.

    We simply can not afford as a country this republican far right bullshit. And we can not afford the libertarian bullsh– either.


  18. Man, You read so much that is not there. It has been nice dialoging with you but I regret, I am unable for you to see my point. Instead of continuing a fruitless debate where none is needed. I wish you well and hope in the end you find some peace.


  19. Ed Darrell says:

    No response because, at a certain point in a day I choose to rest. Today is a new day, and I find it fascinating that a simple concept – like people should think independently and not vote party lines – that they should instead vote for what they think is correct would get you so worked up.

    Your implicit, and therefore passive-aggressive, attack on my positions is part of what irritates me about your position. You assume that I don’t think independently, that I have not voted for what I think is correct, and that I vote party lines for any reason other a good reason, if I vote them (which you don’t know).

    Burke was right, on the whole. In this fight, you’re the good person mugwumping on the sidelines, doing nothing, while partisan attacks are being made to take us down.


  20. No response because, at a certain point in a day I choose to rest. Today is a new day, and I find it fascinating that a simple concept – like people should think independently and not vote party lines – that they should instead vote for what they think is correct would get you so worked up.

    At no point have I agreed or disagreed with your positions. Some of your points I agree with, others not so much; but that is not what you have chosen to engage in. You have assumed that I encompass a contrary position and feeling attacked, have therefore gone on attack.

    I actually live near San Francisco and have been very involved in developing programs for the underserved most particularly HIV/AIDS. My book is not even close to your characterizations. The book is a historical look at how our current healthcare system has developed, why many of the problems we have are rooted in historical legislations and systematics, and what we need to do today to actually change it so we can provide care to more people while providing choice at the same time. I strongly believe in not only the need for a safety net for those most fragile among us, I feel it is each of our obligations to help others. I also believe that over the past 50 years we have lost our humanity, and our linkage to our neighbors. We no longer feel that we have a personal responsibility to help the person across the street.

    The book clearly needs editing and is in editing at this point. I have been involved in healthcare reform since before the current president was elected, starting with Senator Kennedy’s effort on the HELP bill, a piece of legislation I strongly supported. I have provided congressional briefings on the subject of how to serve the most at risk, and most fragile among us, and been involved in either starting or being on the board of two non-profits with this as their focus (one specific to HIV/AIDS the other specific to stimulating neighbor helping neighbor).

    Where you got the idea I am talking about being quiet is beyond me. I am actually trying to get people to not be quiet. But, I am also trying to get them to not simply swallow all the crap they hear from either side. Instead I am trying to get them to engage their grey matter. And stimulate them to be active in the governance of the country.

    Saying that there are only two kinds of politics good and bad is indicative of the underlying problem. Politics itself, in my humble opinion, is a process, not an end. I would agree more closely with the statement that there are only two kinds of outcomes, good and bad, or even in some cases two kinds of people good and bad. I found during the discussion I had with members of congress and their staff during the long and tortourous Health Care debate that both sides had very important issues that needed to solved. The HELP bill, to me, was a much better piece of legislation but it effectlvily was left on the side of the road due to just this type of attitude, that every item was either this way or that way. In the end, what arose was a bill based on winning and loosing the ideaologica arguments in a half a dozen different committees. The Kennedy Bill, long worked, deeply integrated, and pragmatically derived based on tolerance of the other sides issues was a solid basis for the long term changes necessary to affect an entire industry. None of the committee work revolved around such mundane concepts. They became driven by the attainment of an ideaology.

    It is not your points that raise my concern; it is the rapid escalation to attack of any other statement that people like you perceive is contrary to your excepted dogma. By the way I do not mean this as a personal statement about you; I don’t know you, as you don’t know me. I mean it more in a collective manner. Perhaps this is not who you really are. Perhaps this is a reaction of the frustrations you like many others now feel as a result of what is going on in the nation’s health care, economy, jobs, psyche, etc. I think the thing that concerns me the most is that both sides of the ideological field are feeling the same thing. Instead of trying to find a point of pragmatic solution we are inflaming the rhetoric, offering invectives and threats, and exhibiting increasing intolerance.

    Ben Franklin was a big proponent of Tolerance. So am I. I know I do not have all the answers. I know that my solutions, while they may work, are not the best always for everyone. If we increase our levels of tolerance for others ideas we can find those nuggets, those simple pearls of insight and inspiration that everyone exhibits at some point. AS a friend of mines mother used to say, “You should listen to everyone, you can even learn something from a fool!”


  21. Ed Darrell says:

    Mr. Loker:

    Did you see this post immediately before your last one?

    Please read: Cold analysis of the debt downgrade, and the politics:

    No response from you? Why not?

    S&P said the cuts Congress has made are not sufficient. It also blamed an unwillingness to raise revenues and invest in kickstarting the economy and creating jobs — jobs which would generate tax revenue. Again, analyst Keith Davis [of Farr Miller and Washington].

    Davis: S&P outlined a few things that they needed to see to be more comforted that we are on a more sustainable path going forward with regard to meeting our debt. And the political wrangling that took place I think signaled to them that we are not up to the task of coming to a compromise.

    Particularly with elections just around the corner.

    In New York, I’m Stacey Vanek Smith for Marketplace.

    No snark. No ad hominem. Whaddya say?


  22. Ed Darrell says:

    I love Twain, but I don’t think he was arguing in this case to be quiet and let the mob run wild and lynch the Republic.

    “Mugwumpery” is fun stuff to recall. But simply saying “a pox upon both sides” is not helpful. There are only two kinds of politics, good and bad. There’s no such thing as “no politics.”

    Burke said that the only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good people to do nothing. About 18% of the electorate voted in 2010, nationally, I saw in some column a few days ago. That means 82% of the people sat on their hands, played to hard in this case. And look what happened. (It doesn’t change the argument if the statistic is wrong by three times. 54% voted? Still too few.)

    Twain said one man can stop a mob, if he talks sense and tells them to knock it off. That’s the Twain line we need to remember today as mobs of white haired, privileged people run around threatening to pour hot tea on the aged, infirm, young and poor.

    You’re so hard on appeasing these guys here with mugwumpery that you failed to notice: We’re discussing the issues. Ad hominem isn’t the sole substance, nor even a major substance in the discussion, except generally from the Tea Party. People who can’t spell “moron” shouldn’t pick such fights.


  23. Pangolin says:

    Ok Thomas I bit and read about four of your blog posts. What I learned is as follows……

    1) You’re a re-branded Libertarian
    2) You’re a very fast typist (but seem to have lost your return key)
    3) I’ve significantly increased your hit count
    4) You’re plugging your book on health care that I can summarize as a)don’t get sick b) die quickly.
    5) If you ever visit San Francisco you should have your jaw wired shut for your own safety. (being kind about this one, I’ve lost friends to AIDS)
    6) The “Mugwump” movement is you but not necessarily your mom.
    7) You don’t even have a Facebook page which is lame for any author or political movement in this day and age.
    8) You don’t have an editor. (if you do, shoot him/her)

    Seriously guy, your forums have two topics and two members. Two? There are Druid circles in Idaho that are more active.


  24. Of course when you can’t argue the issue ad homonym is all that’s left. Read first you may
    Learn something. Mugwumps are not in the middle Of the road. They simply chose their own road.


  25. Pangolin says:

    Mugwump. Ostrich. Know nothing; do nothing.

    No action on unemployment.
    No action on the failing medical system.
    No action on Climate Change.
    No action on Peak Oil.
    No action on corporate fraud.

    You’ll be like the Texas governor who prattled about secession and then screamed for Federal aid days later.

    There’s nothing in the middle of the road except a white line and dead armadillos.


  26. Ed Darrell says:

    How do you propose to save our nation from ruin by the Tea Party, Mr. Loker? Backing away from the fight doesn’t seem, to me, to cut it.


  27. The problem us the vitriol and hyperpartisanship on both sides.

    That us why I am a Mugwump.


  28. Pangolin says:

    “And this kind of partisan vitriol is good because???”_Thomas W. Loker

    When you understand the source of your pain you can start doing something to correct it. Right now the party drilling holes in the lifeboats happens to be the GOP. That has to stop.

    We have to stop sinking before we can decide which direction to row or who counts the beat of the oars. One thing at a time.


  29. James Kessler says:

    Thomas writes:
    And this kind of partisan vitriol is good because???

    Tell you what, Thomas, when you get the Republican/Tea party to lay off the partisan vitriol then you’ll have the right to ask the same of the Democrats and liberals.

    Because from where I stand, Thomas, quite a lot of the problem with the Democrats, liberals and the President is that we act way too nice. That we have let the right wing continously attack us, bully us and push us around without standing up for ourselves and what we believe in.

    Or to borrow the quote:
    Because I’m tired of working for candidates who make me think that I should be embarrassed to believe what I believe, Sam! I’m tired of getting them elected! We all need some therapy, because somebody came along and said, “‘Liberal’ means soft on crime, soft on drugs, soft on Communism, soft on defense, and we’re gonna tax you back to the Stone Age because people shouldn’t have to go to work if they don’t want to!” And instead of saying, “Well, excuse me, you right-wing, reactionary, xenophobic, homophobic, anti-education, anti-choice, pro-gun, Leave It To Beaver trip back to the Fifties…!”, we cowered in the corner, and said, “Please. Don’t. Hurt. Me.” No more. I really don’t care who’s right, who’s wrong. We’re both right. We’re both wrong. Let’s have two parties, huh? What do you say?


  30. And this kind of partisan vitriol is good because???


  31. Pangolin says:

    Just to rub salt into the wounds of any GOP-Tea Party types; your political future is a demographic dead end. Your current constituency is older, conservative, white, protestant, rural or suburban and male. Your current politics are rife with the politics of exclusion and blame.

    Bad idea.

    Because right now in U.S. K-12 schools the majority of children are non-white, urban, poor and in single parent, female led households. These children’s fathers, aunts, uncles and cousins of working age have trouble finding and retaining jobs sufficient to support themselves much less a family. Many are dependent upon government support even while their mothers and fathers work.

    Guess who they’re going to blame? You.

    Because even the ones trying the crappy go-it-alone mythology are getting wiped out. One illness, one injury, one bad semester at college and they’re tossed to the discard pile. And there will be a reckoning.


  32. James Kessler says:

    To quote:
    1) It is the Democrats and their spending that cause d this an NOT the “Tea Partiers”. This has been thoroughly debunked and you know it is true.

    More then half the deficit was caused by Bush’s tax cuts and Bush’s two wars. That’s according to the CBO. Another significant portion of the deficit was caused by Bush’s Medicare plan D which, like the tax cuts and the wars, your precious Republicans refused to pay for.

    In fact there was no deficit when Bush got elected President. But he sure did recreate it and run it up after he got into power.

    It wasn’t a Democrat who said “Deficits don’t matter” it was Dick Cheney. Or did Dick Cheney become a Democrat when I wasn’t looking?

    You and your “Tea partiers” which is just another way of saying “Republican” spent 2001-2008 not giving a damn about the deficit or the spending. But we’re to suddenly believe you that 1: you actually care about it now and that 2: the policies that got us into this mess, i.e. yours, are somehow the answer to get out of the mess?

    All you did was spend money on two stupid wars and even more stupid tax cuts to the rich. And there your party sits still today..demanding that we give even more tax cuts to the rich and that we don’t get our asses out of Iraq and Afghanistan.

    Oh and by the way…apparently your Tea Party is dying according to the polls..oh and that would include conservative polls. The people aren’t listening to you anymore..they’re severely pissed off at you.

    And your jackass ally in Wisconsin, Governor Walker, isn’t helping you. Because the people kind of noticed that he and his cronies took Wisconsin’s budget surplus and turned into a huge budget deficit with tax cuts to the rich and businesses and then turned around and blamed it on the unions which had nothing to do with it.

    Play time for the tea party is now over, time to go home child.


  33. Ed Darrell says:

    1) It is the Democrats and their spending that cause d this an NOT the “Tea Partiers”. This has been thoroughly debunked and you know it is true.

    I know that to be false — several errors in your premises.

    1. It is spending from the Bush era that makes up most of our current deficit problems. See the chart here.

    2. It was Tea Partiers who, foolishly in my view, said they would stop paying the bills and ruin our credit, in order to force a hasty and ill-thought debate on cutting spending that is necessary to pull us out of recession. They stuck to their guns, mostly.

    3. That Tea Party action is exactly what Standard & Poor’s cited as their reason for downgrading U.S. credit — not an inability to pay, because we have plenty of capacity to pay our debts, but a political lack of spine and will to do the right thing, as demonstrated by the Tea Party’s holding strong on doing exactly the wrong thing and skipping on the debts owed.

    So, revise your premises to reflect reality — and then is the rest of comment any different?


  34. Ed Darrell says:

    We all need to start to vote for the best person, the best idea, the best policy. We are a nation founded “of the people, by the people and for the people” yet we have allowed our political psyche to be coopted and captured by collectivist views.

    More, we need to vote for the best people who are not wedded to one particular path or view, but who will adjust their views and their votes based on the facts of the matter at hand.


  35. The Democrats and their spending? Last time I checked discretionary spending such as Defense is a GOP nest egg for them to police the world. Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security serve a higher purpose than trying to wage war on a country’s dictator someone’s daddy was unable to oust. That was $800 Billion right there. Not to mention that the debt limit was raised something like 14 times during GW’s reign, which sounds like a lot of spending going on to me. God forbid we tax the richest people in our country seeing that they pay a lower percentage (in relation to what they make) than the middle lower classes. They must be too busy buying stuff, and then having their lawyers figure out ways to not pay taxes on that stuff to actually care about the economic issues our country is having. Personal attacks on someone who believes different? Now that is embarassing you. We don’t all have to believe the same, and that means we don’t say spiteful things to someone who doesn’t share your same dopey views. The mortgage bubble popped during Bush’s presidency, and that was because it was a hand’s off approach to that market (sounds like the Tea Party before it was even created). Unions are there for a reason, and I’m pretty sure you enjoy some fantastic benefits related to some work the unions put in for you. Just another Tea Party crazy who probably only watches Fox News, and thinks they are telling the truth.


  36. Pangolin says:

    Responses so far…..

    One conservative troll touting the “it’s all the Democrat’s fault” line while ignoring the massive mismanagement of the Bush administration and the banking sector for eight years. With a solid slice of “hate unions” in there for ignorances sake.

    How do you like your weekends bub? How about Medicare for granny or Social Security that keeps your parents out of your back room. Those are a direct legacy of the Unions along with a lot of other benefits cons take for granted. Take away the unions and it’s each individual vs. your corporate masters.

    One spammer trying to drum up readership for his own blog. Sloppy.


  37. grow up says:

    What liar you are:

    1) It is the Democrats and their spending that cause d this an NOT the “Tea Partiers”. This has been thoroughly debunked and you know it is true. You can make no rational case for this. Certainly not “tax the rich” because that will not stop the problem. This is not a rational position give the numbers. Spending has to come down.. You are just embarrassing yourself here. A man your age that cannot think critically but still hangs on to the Demcrats’ lies is truly a sad thing. Act your age.

    2) Nobody in WI took away the public employees “right to collectively bargain”. That is just not true. What he did was stand up to the corrupt public sector union bosses to the (very tiny) point of having them kick in more to their own retirement plan.

    3) Public employees do not have a “right” to be unionized. It is a privileged granted by the State.

    4) If the democrats over turn this, it is just those 5401k retirement accounts that will be in jeopardy. You stand reality on its head and show that you do not even understand the issue

    Here you have really gone over the edge: you are out and out lying.


  38. Shortly after reading Mark Twain’s recently published autobiography; I came to the realization that the situation he faced, and wrote about in his autobiography, in the late 1880s through 1912 is the same one we face today. We are surrounded by hyper-partisanship; the two prime political parties are more divided than ever, to not be one-hundred percent in agreement with the dogma of a party is to be branded a DINO or RINO, damned for your own thoughts.

    Twain faced the same issues with the presidential election of 1884 and the contest between James G. Blaine the republican candidate and Grover Cleveland, the democrat. Blaine was well known for his corruption. Blaine was one of the dominant Republican leaders of the late 19th century, and champion of the “Half-Breed” faction of the GOP. Nicknamed “The Continental Liar from the State of Maine,” “Slippery Jim,” and “The Magnetic Man,” he was a magnetic speaker in an era that prized oratory, and a man of charisma.

    Twain and a number of other prominent men of the era, could no longer stomach the partisanship nor could they support a person whom they considered untrustworthy and fraudulent. Further they determined that what was needed was for these men of influence to publically make a show of voting for the best candidate or policy regardless of the party.

    Twain and these others became known as Mugwumps. It was said by their detractors they had their mug on one side of the fence and their wump on the other. History has portrayed Mugwumps as traitors to the cause. Finally, Twains autobiography, written contemporaneously sheds a different view from the men that were the Mugwumps of their day.

    Twain said, “ “We, the Mugwumps, a little company made up of the unenslaved of both parties, the very best men to be found in the two great parties – that was our idea of it… Our principles were high, and very definite. We were not a party; we had no candidates; we had no axes to grind. Our vote laid upon the man we cast it for no obligation of any kind. By our rule, we could not ask for office; we could not accept office. When voting it was our duty to vote for the best man, regardless of party name. We had no other creed. Vote for the best man-that was creed enough!”

    This concept has resonated with me as what is necessary today. We all need to start to vote for the best person, the best idea, the best policy. We are a nation founded “of the people, by the people and for the people” yet we have allowed our political psyche to be coopted and captured by collectivist views. We are often damned if we dare to disagree with even the most minor points. Today we need to again become Mugwumps. There is a good site (yes this is CO not COM). You can find out more.


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