Voter ID follies in Pennsylvania


Quick tally is done; the voter fraud count shows Republicans would steal 750,000 votes from citizens in Pennsylvania with their voter ID scheme.

ThinkProgress has the story.

Reread our earlier story about the woman who marched with Martin Luther King, Jr., 51 years ago to secure the right to vote for all Americans — but would be deprived of that right under the current law.

Sacrificing 750,000 Americans to stop a dozen cases of ID fraud.  Voter ID laws don’t even touch 90% of voter fraud, ID can’t prevent it.  This is lunacy.

Worse than lunacy:  Pennsylvania’s voter ID law is evil.

Pray for success of the ACLU challenge to this miscarriage of justice.

18 Responses to Voter ID follies in Pennsylvania

  1. And sorry, Pino, since you’re claiming that Voter ID is necessary then yes you have to justify why it’s necessary. And oops..you already admitted you can’t.

    So time for you to apply some intellectual honesty and admit you’re position is stupid.

    But hey I can play that game too. SInce there’s actual evidence showing Republicans engaging in election fraud we can’t safely assume that it’s not a widespread thing so at every election if a republican wins he will have to prove in a court of law that he or she won without engaging in election fraud. Meaning the Republicans is guilty of election fraud until he or she proves otherwise. I’m sure you agree that law is necessary, yes?

    Which is what Voter ID does..it assumes that every voter is guilty of voter fraud until he or she proves otherwise.

    Oh and by the way..exactly how is a person voting via absentee ballot supposed to prove who they are with a photo id?

    Sorry, if your party wants to claim that 1: there’s mass voter fraud and that 2: Voter ID is necessary to stop it then they should have to show the evidence that there is mass voter fraud.

    SOmething doesn’t become true automatically just because the GOP says sos.

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  2. Pino writes:
    The law has always said we don’t want people to vote if they:

    1. Are under 18
    2. Aren’t a citizen
    3. Live in another state and are trying to vote in this one [unless they are a student]

    If you make laws restricting voting to a group of people, it seems reasonable to verify that the people voting meet those criteria.

    Yeah. And we need Voter ID for what reason? By the way, Pino, in case you haven’t paid attention..you have to prove who you are when you register to vote. So..why the repetition of red tape?

    Pino writes:
    I don’t think there is any evidence.

    THen as there is no evidence…there is no need for the law. Sorry, this is the silly argument: “There should be voter id to stop voter fraud.” and then when asked “What’s your evidence that there is voter fraud going on?” there’s absolute silence.

    But somehow we still need voter ID to stop this mythical voter fraud. Yeah again as you have to prove who you are to register to vote then there’s no need for “Voter ID.” It’s just a lot more red tape all because Republicans don’t want certain legal voters to vote. They want to make it as hard as possible to vote. If you want to argue that’s not their goal then you’re going to have a fun time trying to explain that in light of the fact that to register to vote you have to prove who you are.

    As for the not good at arguing..yeah that would be you who is defending a position that you admit you have no proof that the position is necessary.

    Republicans have spent years looking for mass voter fraud..and found none. So we should go along with what they want for what reason?

    And you can believe whatever stupid nonsense you want about their motivations, Pino, but unlike you I actually understand the GOP.

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  3. Ed Darrell says:

    Then there’s Mississippi’s program: You can’t get an appropriate ID to vote if you don’t already have one: http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2012/07/06/511716/to-get-voter-id-mississippi-voters-need-birth-certificate-to-get-birth-certificate-they-need-id/

    Then there’s New Mexico’s program: You can’t get a voter ID unless you do it when you’re a minor, and a parent’s say-so does it; again, this does nothing to decrease voter fraud: http://theradula.blogspot.com/2012/05/quashing-youth-vote.html

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  4. Ed Darrell says:

    The law has always said we don’t want people to vote if they:

    1. Are under 18
    2. Aren’t a citizen
    3. Live in another state and are trying to vote in this one [unless they are a student]

    If you make laws restricting voting to a group of people, it seems reasonable to verify that the people voting meet those criteria.

    The verification processes states have in place work 99.9999999% of the time. Why should we require a brand new identification process? It won’t stop voter fraud. It does nothing to verify voter qualifications. It costs millions of dollars, and it is, all by itself, invidious discrimination of the sort we worked to rid our nation of for five decades of the 20th century.

    So, since it doesn’t do what you want it to do, it does considerable damage to democracy and human rights, and it costs a lot of money — what good is it?

    I agree you haven’t yet justified it, but claiming that you don’t have to justify it is only one more way of saying “get rid of it, it’s a cancer on democracy.” Is that what you intend to say?

    What good is voter ID? None. Why poison our democracy to have it, then?

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  5. pino says:

    The basis for the law..the supposed reason it’s necessary is that there is this large amount of voter fraud going on. Or should we be making up laws based on momentary whims?

    The law has always said we don’t want people to vote if they:

    1. Are under 18
    2. Aren’t a citizen
    3. Live in another state and are trying to vote in this one [unless they are a student]

    If you make laws restricting voting to a group of people, it seems reasonable to verify that the people voting meet those criteria.

    I asked you to show the evidence. Sorry, I did ask a question.

    Check again. Really, no question.

    ”What evidence do you have that proves the necessity of this law?” And “What evidence do you have to show that there is a mass amount of illegal votes?”

    I answered you already at 11:16 bathtub time last night.

    I don’t think there is any evidence.

    And I think you’re a blithering idiot who is supporting a claim that you flat out refuse to show the evidence to back the claim.

    You’re not very good at this debate thing. Again, read my posts, I didn’t make any claim. I simply stated the inverse of your argument in an effort to point out how silly it was.

    The idea that people are trying to suppress the vote is silly.

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  6. Hm, why shouldn’t I be angry at a party of grumpy morally challenged old white men so scared ******** that we whites are losing our majority status and that they’re about to be reduced to a regional party at best if not outright oblivion because of demographic changes which has sunk them into such desperation to hold onto power by any means necessary that they’re perfectly willing to subvert democracy in this country and actively seek to suppress some groups of legal voters because the party in question doesn’t like who they vote for.

    And why shouldn’t I be annoyed at an apologist for that party spouting that party’s lies and crap while being stupid enough to think that everyone else is going to buy those lies and crap as truth with absolutely no evidence to back said claims…

    I seem to recall a Pennsylvania GOP official said that Voter ID will level the playing field in that state for Republicans. There are only two ways that rings true: 1: That there is such massive voter fraud going on in that state that anyone with 50 functioning brain cells should be able to prove it or 2: That party is supporting Voter ID specifically to deny the right to vote to legal voters who don’t vote the way the party wants.

    Which is it? Oh and if you choose option #1 then just know my next question will be “And you can prove it?”

    So as I said earlier…it’s time for you to put up or shut up, Pino. Prove that voter id is needed or have the intellectual honesty to acknowledge you can’t and withdraw the claim.

    Time is ticking.

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  7. Ed Darrell says:

    I think you’re angry.

    It’s as bold an attack on our nation, on our laws and Constitution, as Pearl Harbor. The question is, why are you NOT angry?

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  8. Well I’m sure that Pino agrees that as Republicans have been known to engage in election fraud as evidenced here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Ehrlich#Misleading_robocalls

    On November 6, 2006, the day before the general election, Republican Gov. Ehrlich’s and Lt. Gov. Steele’s campaigns mailed a flier to a number of Prince George’s County residents. The flier, a self-proclaimed “Ehrlich-Steele Democrats Official Voter Guide,” though the candidates were actually Republican, was a sample ballot endorsing Ehrlich and Steele with a list of other politicians, all Democratic. The front cover of the mailer featured pictures of several current and former Democratic candidates for public office, with the text, “These Are Our Choices” and the implication that Ehrlich and Steele were Democrats.[29] Many Democrats criticized the mailer as misleading, as it could imply that Ehrlich and Steele were Democrats. Others, including Kweisi Mfume and Jack B. Johnson said that the featuring of three Prince George’s County Democrats on the front of the mailer suggested that they all had endorsed Ehrlich and Steele, which was not the case.[30]

    and:

    In December 2011, Ehrlich’s 2010 campaign manager, Paul E. Schurick, was convicted of four counts concerning a scheme to suppress the black vote using 112,000 fraudulent robocalls.[31] Political consultant Julius Hensen was also convicted on one count. [32]

    That we simply can’t assume that republicans are innocent of election fraud and therefor must pass a law that assumes that they are indeed guilty of election fraud until they prove they are innocent….

    After all, fair is fair isn’t it, Pino?

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  9. Ed Darrell says:

    Do you think that people who aren’t legally able to vote should be allowed to vote?

    No — but I think it is immoral, and contrary to the Voting Rights Act of 1965, to stop from voting thousands of citizens who are legally eligible to vote, and registered to vote, in a futile or false attempt to stop a tiny few illegal votes. We don’t gun down everybody in the bank to get the one bank robber. We don’t arrest everyone who smokes to get a few who smoke crack. That’s essentially what the voter ID laws do.

    Do you think 750,000 citizens of Pennsylvania should have to give up their rights to catch the 4 illegal votes? Seriously?

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  10. Pino writes:
    The law simply states that you have to prove you are who you say you are. Hardly onerous.

    The basis for the law..the supposed reason it’s necessary is that there is this large amount of voter fraud going on. Or should we be making up laws based on momentary whims? Funny..I thought conservatives were against “big government” and yet here they are..adding to government for a reason they flat out refuse to prove the necessity of. Because its not like this dimbulb idea isn’t going to waste massive amounts of taxpayer money, create another new layer of red tape and turn the concept of “innocent until proven guilty” upside down and make every voter in the country guilty of fraud until they prove their innocence. Not to mention the fact that all the time and money needed to train all the election judges in this new law. And I’m sure you’re going to pony up the tax money to pay for all that and also pay out of your own pocket the money necessary to make sure every legal voter in this country has an valid ID right?

    I asked you to show the evidence. Sorry, I did ask a question. Or perhaps more specifically I challenged you to show the evidence. What did you think I was doing when I said “Have fun trying to prove that there is a more then a pissante few illegal votes.”?

    But if you want it in question form here goes…”What evidence do you have that proves the necessity of this law?” And “What evidence do you have to show that there is a mass amount of illegal votes?”

    By the by..granted it’s been just under 20 years since I registered to vote but I rather doubt it’s changed since then..you have to prove who you are when you register to vote. Hm..lets see..lets go to the Minnesota Secretary of State website and see what the requirements are: http://www.sos.state.mn.us/index.aspx?page=204

    So why the extra red tape?

    Pino writes:
    I think you’re angry.

    And I think you’re a blithering idiot who is supporting a claim that you flat out refuse to show the evidence to back the claim. Sorry, I tend to get annoyed at right wingers who live in a false reality bubble world. I dislike it when people lie to me or try to con me. I also dislike it when right wingers dither and play little semantic games or try to make claims without evidence as if they’re the utterances of God. Yes I know..I’m silly that way but that’s just the way I am.

    Sorry, your side wants to claim that this law is needed because there is lots and lots of voter fraud. Then prove it. Show the evidence.

    If you can’t then you admit that there is no need for “Voter ID” and that your party is doing nothing more then brazenly attempting to suppress legal votes because as your own party admits when turnout is high..your party loses.

    You have 40 hours and counting…

    By the by, when you do show the evidence it should be from a nonpartisan credible source.

    Like

  11. pino says:

    Ducking the actual issue I asked are you?

    You didn’t ask me a question.

    Now where’s your evidence that there is this mass amount of people voting illegally?

    I don’t think there is any evidence. My only claim is that if you create laws that restrict voting based on a certain criteria, it makes sense to validate those criteria. That’s all.

    Time for you ducking the issue I raised, Pino.

    I think you’re angry.

    Like

  12. pino says:

    In short, to make a charge that there are illegal voters, you need to have some evidence

    The law simply states that you have to prove you are who you say you are. Hardly onerous. You seem to have no issues making voter suppression claims without proof. I’m just making the same silly claim you’re making, but in reverse.

    Like

  13. Pino writes:
    Do you think that people who aren’t legally able to vote should be allowed to vote?

    Ducking the actual issue I asked are you?

    Do I think people who aren’t legally able to vote should be allowed to vote? Of course not.

    Now where’s your evidence that there is this mass amount of people voting illegally? Sorry, I’m not going to believe that there is this actual large amount of voter fraud going on here just because you and your party say so. Even when I was a member of your party I wouldn’t have believed such a claim without actual proof.

    So if it’s going on so much then you should have absolutely no problem in actually showing the evidence to back your claim. So do both you and me a favor and put up or shut up.

    I’ll give you until Sunday at 11pm central to show the evidence. If you can’t by then you are admitting this is nothing but a completely nonsense issue dreamed up by the GOP to suppress LEGAL votes. So you have 48 hours.

    Oh and just so there’s no quibbling..by “mass amount” I mean enough so that it can sway elections.

    Time for you ducking the issue I raised, Pino.

    Like

  14. Ed Darrell says:

    Except, Pino, in none of these states has anyone produced evidence of fraud that a voter ID would prevent. In most states, there is close to zero evidence of any voter fraud at all.

    In short, to make a charge that there are illegal voters, you need to have some evidence — and there is none.

    Like

  15. pino says:

    Have fun trying to prove that there is a more then a pissante few illegal votes.

    Do you think that people who aren’t legally able to vote should be allowed to vote?

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  16. Have fun trying to prove that there is a more then a pissante few illegal votes.

    Let me remind you that George W Bush had the DOJ spend 5 years looking for evidence of voter fraud and in that 5 years they found a grand total of 300 cases…most of which was former felons voting when they’re not allowed to.

    Which “Voter ID” won’t stop.

    Like

  17. pino says:

    ThinkProgress has the story.

    The inverse of this, of course, is to say that the democrats are trying to sway elections by pandering to illegal voters.

    Like

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