Intelligent design: Pigs still don’t fly

Encore Post

On the road for a day and a half. Here is an encore post from last October, an issue that remains salient, sadly, as creationists have stepped up their presence in Texas before the next round of biology textbook approvals before the Texas State Board of Education. I discuss why intelligent design should not be in science books.

 

Picture from Flying Pig Brewery, Seattle, Washington Image: Flying Pig Brewing Co., Everett, Washington

[From October 2006]: We’re talking past each other now over at Right Reason, on a thread that started out lamenting Baylor’s initial decision to deny Dr. Francis Beckwith tenure last year, but quickly changed once news got out that Beckwith’s appeal of the decision was successful.

I noted that Beckwith’s getting tenure denies ID advocates of an argument that Beckwith is being persecuted for his ID views (wholly apart from the fact that there is zero indication his views on this issue had anything to do with his tenure discussions). Of course, I was wrong there — ID advocates have since continued to claim persecution where none exists. Never let the facts get in the way of a creationism rant, is the first rule of creationism.

Discussion has since turned to the legality of teaching intelligent design in a public school science class. This is well settled law — it’s not legal, not so long as there remains no undisproven science to back ID or any other form of creationism.

Background: The Supreme Court affirmed the law in a 1987 case from Louisiana, Edwards v. Aguillard (482 U.S. 578), affirming a district court’s grant of summary judgment against a state law requiring schools to teach creationism whenever evolution was covered in the curriculum. Summary judgment was issued by the district court because the issues were not materially different from those in an earlier case in Arkansas, McLean vs. Arkansas (529 F. Supp. 1255, 1266 (ED Ark. 1982)). There the court held, after trial, that there is no science in creationism that would allow it to be discussed as science in a classroom, and further that creationism is based in scripture and the advocates of creationism have religious reasons only to make such laws. (During depositions, each creationism advocate was asked, under oath, whether they knew of research that supports creationism; each answered “no.” Then they were asked where creationism comes from, and each answered that it comes from scripture. It is often noted how the testimony changes from creationists, when under oath.)

Especially after the Arkansas trial, it was clear that in order to get creationism into the textbooks, creationists would have to hit the laboratories and the field to do some science to back their claims. Oddly, they have staunchly avoided doing any such work, instead claiming victimhood, usually on religious grounds. To the extent ID differs from all other forms of creationism, the applicability of the law to ID was affirmed late last year in the Pennsylvania case, Kitzmiller v. Dover.

Against this legal background, Dr. Francis Beckwith has been arguing that school boards may legally inject creationism into their curricula. His analysis is long and off the point; among other things he thinks that, philosophically, courts should not inquire into the religious motives of school boards and other legislative bodies when they pass such silly laws. In this argument, Beckwith appears to miss the essential elements upon which the courts rule: That there is no demonstration of science in the various flavors of creationism, and consequently no valid, secular reason to put it into school curricula.

In my days in intercollegiate debate, we called such cases “squirrels.” They depend on one’s roping in the opponent to an off-topic discussion on some point where you actually have a case, in order to avoid arguing on all the issues where you are weak. In the case of creationism, the ID advocates wish to avoid arguing on the issues of whether they’ve done any significant or substantial lab work since 1981, because they haven’t. Having not paid the dues to be called science, having not purchased the research ticket to respectability the courts require, they need to argue something else to stay in the game.

The bottom line is this: Dr. Beckwith claims that it would or should be legal to teach intelligent design (ID) in public school science classes, as science. These claims are predicated on an assumption that science is behind the ideas of intelligent design — and that assumption is completely unwarranted. There is not enough science in ID to get a nomination for the IgNobel Prizes, let alone to warrant teaching it as science to innocent children.

Beckwith doesn’t see it that way, of course. He’s got a book out, Law, Darwinism, and Public Education, in which he argues that ID should be treated like just an alternative proposal, and in which he concludes that if a school district were to make the ruling just right, ID would be found to be good science to be taught to kids. I bought the book a couple of years ago — at a church conference featuring the Discovery Institute’s best videos and books, a science conference being something too scary for intelligent design, it appears — and I have intended at various times to make a good fisking of it. But there are problems: First and foremost, the book is so rife with error that I can’t get more than a couple of pages at a time without throwing it down in disgust at its lack of editing. Nor is there any financial incentive — one more analysis that shows ID is still outdated and bad science, and that the law has not changed since 1788, is not much in demand. Perhaps someday, when I get some real library time, I might fisk it anyway.

In other places I have likened Beckwith’s claim to a claim that, philosophically, the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) should regulate pig farms in air traffic lanes near major airports, since, if pigs could fly, they might pose a hazard to commercial and general aviation. Such a claim is nearly indistinguishable from Beckwith’s claims in the soundness of their reasoning and arguments, and in the utter failure of the argument due to the error in a major premise. ID isn’t science, and pigs don’t fly.

Pig flight is a good analogy to Beckwith’s claims, I think. Logically, one can make the case that the FAA would have jurisdiction over farms with flying pigs. One can make that case under current law, which charges the FAA with worrying over hazards to aviation, and which in practice requires FAA and airports and airlines to seriously consider risks from birds around airports, as well as things like deer on the runways (hello O’Hare?). So, logically, philosophically, the case makes sense. It is a perfect squirrel case, except for this issue: Pigs don’t fly.

At Panda’s Thumb, earlier, I put it this way:

You have assumed that ID is science. It’s not. You’ve assumed that the science can be well demonstrated in a courtroom. No one has tried. It is unjustified, therefore, to make the leap to the position that teaching ID in a government-sponsored science class could be constitutional. I think the repeating of this canard is part of what makes non-legal scholars, like Tom DeLay, angry when the judges merely apply the law that exists, instead of the law that non-party partisans have told DeLay and others could exist.

One could, philosophically, argue that the Federal Aviation Administration should regulate effluents from pigs, if it can be shown that pigs do fly. The effluents could, arguably, pose a hazard to commercial and recreational aviation, and they could have effects on the ground around pig airports. If the pigs fly in FAA-regulated areas, then the law is pretty clear that they fall into the purview of the FAA.

But if the FAA shows up at an Arkansas pig farm to inspect the pigs, the farmer would be well within his rights to throw them off the farm. Pigs don’t fly, no matter the philosophical validity of the FAA’s having jurisdiction, if they did.

ID is not science. That pig hasn’t even sprouted wings yet.

Dr. Beckwith, later in that thread, came as close as he ever has to dealing with the issue:

Ed. I don’t recognize my arguments in your comments. As you know, if you have read my book, I am not offering legal advice to teachers. I am assessing a debate over Constitutional Law. To employ an illustration, prior to our current First Amendment regime, lawyers argued in law reviews that hard core pornography is protected by the Constitution, even though those lawyers would not advise their individual clients to start purchasing pornography. So, there is a difference between the sort of advice one may give a client, and the more scholarly debate about the nature of our legal regime and what sorts of actions are permissible under it.

The difference between pornography and intelligent design being only that pornography really does exist, and can be found easily, and in some cases may be argued to have socially redeeming value (see, c.f., the Sistine Chapel).

In any case, I think we can conclude that Beckwith and I agree on this: Teachers, administrators, don’t try ID in the classroom. That pig won’t fly.

22 Responses to “Intelligent design: Pigs still don’t fly”

  1. Nick Kelsier Says:

    Josh writes:
    Hence, your questions are totally irrelevant. ID is not concerned with the nature of the designer but in making distinctions between things which have arisen by means of undirected natural processes and things which have arisen by means of intelligent causation.

    However, Josh, they are entirely relevent. Because the proponents of Intelligent Design just happen to be the proponents of creationism. They conjured up ID to get creationism in the back door because they could no longer get it in the front door. Or did it somehow escape your notice that the major supporters of ID just happen to be archconservative evangelical Christians? Know of any atheist groups that support ID? If you want to claim there is a designer, josh, then at some point you need to say who that designer is. Else really…you are being way too general for science.

    And until you can prove that designer actually exists…the rest of your claims are nonsense. You’re merely pointing out a window at a tree and saying “it’s too complex for it to be anything but designed.” and that is not science. That is faith.

    If there is a designer, Josh, then that designer used evolution as a means to an end. The evidence for evolution is simply overwhelming…it’s as simple as your genes.

    But leave the question of a “designer” to where it belongs…to articles of faith.

  2. Nick Kelsier Says:

    To quote:
    Intelligent Design is the study of patterns in nature which appear to be designed; it maintains that certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, not an undirected process such as natural selection. ID theorists use methods of design detection already employed by a number of scientific disciplines—archeology, forensic science, cryptology, and S.E.T.I. to name a few—to infer that certain features of the universe and of biological systems are the product of design.

    With one key difference. Those fields don’t posit a designer and then go find evidence of it. They find evidence first. You guys do it in reverse. You guys cherrypick evidence to fit your already preconceived notion. That isn’t science. To use archaeology as an example, it’s as if you guys are pointing at a hill and saying “there’s a buried city under there.” instead of what archaeology does which is examine the hill and if there is evidence there was a city there then they’ll say there was. As I said before…you can’t scientifically prove that this “designer” exists. All your claims still come down to faith.

    And as I also mentioned, your claims open up a very big can of worms when it comes, as it applies to the schools in this country, the separation of church and state.

  3. Ed Darrell Says:

    My question is: what is unscientific about employing these scientific methods of design detection when analyzing biological systems?

    Nothing. What becomes unscientific is the unscientific application, followed by claims that obviously natural processes were instead directed by an intelligence.

    In science, one doesn’t start out with the conclusion of what one will see when one observes nature. One observes first.

    Intelligent Design is the study of patterns in nature which appear to be designed; it maintains that certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, not an undirected process such as natural selection. ID theorists use methods of design detection already employed by a number of scientific disciplines—archeology, forensic science, cryptology, and S.E.T.I. to name a few—to infer that certain features of the universe and of biological systems are the product of design.

    Alas, none of the methods of determining intelligent design work when applied to those things in nature which IDists then claim are designed, without evidence even of their flawed methodologies.

    I find it interesting that you claim to reject the tenets of intelligent design theorists, but then you claim to use them, and you claim scientific backing when you know no one has ever successfully used any of the proposed tools to determine design.

    Besides, your first assertion states that, “generally, the intelligently designed thing lacks the complexity of the haphazard.” I take this to mean that designed things exhibit organization and purpose as opposed to being “haphazard” or chaotic or unorganized. So, it is not clear to me that ID takes the “opposite tack” on your first assertion.

    You get to your argument by imputing a meaning that I did not give (or I would have said so). Dembski argues that complexity should be an indicator of design. It’s not. Simplicity should be an indicator of design. Dembski has never experimentally nor observationally justified his preference for complexity over simplicity, so the very root of ID is wild guess rather than science. The guess is wild enough so that when I am clear that complexity suggests no design, you can weasel it around so that you are satisfied I said something else, and the evidence contrary to ID is really, in some odd way, evidence of ID.

    “Specified Complexity” is a hallmark of jerry-rigging, done out of necessity and inability to design. ID rests on a foundation that complex things are designed. That’s not true in architecture or engineering. Complex things in nature tend not to be designed; complex things made by humans suffer from poor design.

    So, if you’re trying to make a case that a bumbling force designs living things, you might be on to something.

    But Darwin already figured that out. Why not give credit where credit is due?

  4. jmatthanbrown Says:

    Mr. Kelsier,

    Intelligent Design is the study of patterns in nature which appear to be designed; it maintains that certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, not an undirected process such as natural selection. ID theorists use methods of design detection already employed by a number of scientific disciplines—archeology, forensic science, cryptology, and S.E.T.I. to name a few—to infer that certain features of the universe and of biological systems are the product of design.

    Hence, your questions are totally irrelevant. ID is not concerned with the nature of the designer but in making distinctions between things which have arisen by means of undirected natural processes and things which have arisen by means of intelligent causation.

    - Josh

  5. jmatthanbrown Says:

    Mr. Darrell,

    I would argue that ID does not take the “opposite tack” on your criteria for design. Contrary to what is often espoused, ID theorists do not take complexity to be the only demarcation for design. A random pile of rocks is very complex; conversely, a pile of rocks which have been arranged in the shape of letters which spell out the name Ed Darrell is also complex. The reason we infer that the pile of rocks which spell your name is the product of intelligence is not because it is complex; it is because it matches a specified pattern.

    Besides, your first assertion states that, “generally, the intelligently designed thing lacks the complexity of the haphazard.” I take this to mean that designed things exhibit organization and purpose as opposed to being “haphazard” or chaotic or unorganized. So, it is not clear to me that ID takes the “opposite tack” on your first assertion.

    As to your second point, you state that, “design frequently distinguishes itself by being out of place.” Another way of saying this is that something that is designed is highly improbable. You give an example of finding a chipped rock tethered to a stick on a grassy plain—this arrangement is highly improbable. However, a high level of improbability, while being a necessary condition, is not sufficient for inferring design. We infer that the chipped rock tethered to a stick is designed because it is highly improbable and because it corresponds to a specified pattern. In any event, it is entirely unclear to me that ID theorists take the “opposite tack” on our second assertion.

    Regarding your third assertion, ID theorists argue that approaching biological systems from a design perspective allows us to employ reverse-engineering to understand how biological systems are constructed and further explain their function and importance. So, I’m not sure how ID theorists are taking the “opposite tack” on this point either.

    Once again, we seem to agree that design detection is a well established aspect of science employed by scientists in multiple fields. My question is: what is unscientific about employing these scientific methods of design detection when analyzing biological systems?

  6. Nick Kelsier Says:

    JMA, let me ask you this fundamental question. Actually it’s several questions.

    Can you scientifically prove that this “designer” exists? Can you scientificially test this designer? Can you put this “designer” up for peer review?

    Can you identify this “designer”? Can you say who or what it is? Because simply pointing out a window at a tree and saying “that’s too complex for it not to have been designed” is not proof.

    Oh and I’ll point out one thing. The theory of evolution doesn’t rule out God. It simply doesn’t mention Him. And one of the reasons for that, besides the fact that science can’t prove or disprove the existance of God, is this: Science can not and should not take sides in what is a religious debate.

    Like I said before, ID is creationism by another name. It’s a religious belief and therefor it doesn’t belong in any science classroom on the planet. Science deals with facts, science deals with what can be observed, tested and proven.

    God can not be observed, tested or proven. To believe in God or not is an article of faith. You can no more prove God exists then anyone could prove that God doesn’t exist.

    And that is the question that will come up if ID is brought into the schools. “Who is this designer?” “Is it God? Is it some other deity? Is it not a deity at all?” And then oops….you’re blowing a 20 foot hole in the separation of church and state.

    To quote the 1890 Wisconsin Supreme Court: “There is no such source and cause of strife, quarrel, fights, malignant opposition, persecution, and war, and all evil in the state, as religion. Let it once enter our civil affairs, our government would soon be destroyed. Let it once enter our common schools, they would be destroyed.”

  7. Ed Darrell Says:

    Look at the criteria I listed. ID takes the opposite tack on all three of them. ID claims complexity hints at design, not simplicity. ID claims design is indistinguishable from the locale where some intelligently designed feature is found, not out of place at all. And you misunderstand the third point, or ID’s take on it: I’m saying design can be duplicated, reverse engineered. ID advocates point at things that have not been duplicated to claim design is beyond understanding.

    If you agree with me, and you reject the tenets of intelligent design espoused by its advocates, how can you be an advocate of ID?

  8. jmatthanbrown Says:

    Mr. Darrell,

    It appears we both agree that there are well defined methods scientists have developed to detect design. As you point out, archaeologists and anthropologists regularly use such methods, and I would suggest that forensic scientists, and the researchers at S.E.T.I. do as well. You’ve even identified a way in which one could justify making a design inference by outlining three fundamental marks of design:

    (1) You point out that, “intelligently designed thing[s] lack the complexity of the haphazard.” In other words, they are well organized and exhibit teleology or purpose.

    (2) You point out that, “design frequently distinguishes itself by being out of place.” Another way one might put this is that something which is the product of intelligent design is highly improbable.

    (3) You say that, “design tends to be the sort of stuff that can be duplicated by an outside agency from reverse-engineered, external blueprints.” Perhaps a more precise way to put this is that things which are designed correspond to a specified pattern which can be identified and understood.

    It seems to me that scientists use these markers as a sort of ‘explanatory filter’ enabling them to distinguish between things which are the result of undirected natural processes and things which are the product of intelligent design.

    Since we both agree that design detection is a well established scientific endeavor I am a bit puzzled as to why you claim ID is not science. More pointedly, why is it “unscientific” to apply these methods of design detection to biological systems?

    - Josh

  9. Ed Darrell Says:

    s it possible to distinguish between something that has arisen by means of undirected natural causes (e.g. a driftwood wall) versus something that is the product of intelligence (e.g. a brick wall)?

    Sometimes, but not always. Generally the intelligently designed thing lacks the complexity of the haphazard. Simplicity in design is one of the hallmarks of intelligent involvement.

    Second, design frequently distinguishes itself by being out of place. A chipped rock in a bed of similar rock doesn’t stand out nearly as much as the same rock tethered to a stick found on a grassy plain a few miles uphill from the quarry.

    Third, design tends to be the sort of stuff that can be duplicated by an outside agency from reverse-engineered, external blueprints.

    All of those apply to a brick wall, which is less complex than a pile of driftwood, made from clay fired in a process we can repeat, from clay found in a separate location, and held together by masonry composed of a non-naturally-occurring substance — or a naturally-occurring substance assembled in a fashion easy to duplicate in a non-natural way (we can often distinguish adobe construction from the ground, even after years of weathering).

    Archaeologists and anthropologists regularly face this question. Have you looked at their methods for making the distinctions?

  10. jmatthanbrown Says:

    Gentlemen,

    Let us begin with the fundamental question: is it possible to distinguish between something that has arisen by means of undirected natural causes (e.g. a driftwood wall) versus something that is the product of intelligence (e.g. a brick wall)?

    - Josh

  11. Nick Kelsier Says:

    Since I have yet to see any ID’er offer a rational discussion much less offer actual peer reviewed science, go right ahead and try.

    But in the end ID is still an attempt to interject religion into the public schools. And sorry…no.

    If your side had actual science JMA, your side would have that science out there shown in peer reviewed scientific journals. And yet…your side doesn’t. And it isn’t because of some conspiracy against you…it’s because your side has no actual science. ID is creationism by another name.

  12. Ed Darrell Says:

    Why don’t you begin by catalogueing all the ID papers published in science journals, tell us who are the chief theorists in ID, and describe what ID theory says, and how it’s been tested and found correct.

    I’d love to see a photograph of an ID lab, too. Got one?

    Heck, if you want a rational discussion, I’ll open a thread just for that. You don’t want my predictions about the thread, though.

  13. jmatthanbrown Says:

    Mr. Kelsier,

    I would love to discuss the science behind ID with you if you’d like; are you willing to engage in a rational discussion?

    - Josh

  14. Nick Kelsier Says:

    JM, if you could develop arguments in favor of ID that contain actual science and actual logic…..

    Oh wait…there is no science and no logic to ID so I guess you’re screwed.

  15. jmatthanbrown Says:

    Mr. Darrell,

    If you could develop logically sound arguments to back up the pithy remarks you make on your blog your arguments would be more convincing.

    - Josh

  16. Stars « dreams Says:

    [...] timpanogos.wordpress.com/2007/10/01/intelligent-design-pigs-st… [...]

  17. Ray Says:

    Did you know that Teddy Roosevelt came from the planet Zebulon in the galaxy of Andromeda?

    Personally, I wasn’t surprized at all when I heard that.

  18. Ed Darrell Says:

    A student told one of our teachers last week that she was certain that the first president of the U.S. had really been an African American. It certainly makes an interesting story, maybe more interesting than the real stuff.

    Under the Florida bill, can I teach that if I believe it?

    Lesson planning suddenly gets a whole lot easier!

  19. Ray Says:

    “If a teacher determines that certain information is sufficiently “scientific” and “relevant,” the teacher has a “right” to teach that material irrespective of whether such information is contrary to the curriculum adopted by the State Board of Education through the SSS or by the school district through its instructional materials.”

    What a bad joke on he students of Florida! The teacher gets to act independently of the scientific community and with no oversight by anyone?

    What if the teacher believes there’s scientific evidence for a flat Earth or for geocentrism? Such a bill leaves students vulnerable to any pet ideas that a teacher may have, no matter how outrageous or stupid – and in the name of “teacher’s rights”?

    The bill is short-sighted to say the least. But that’s typical of creationist thinking. In order to get their own ideas into the public school classroom they’ll allow the whole system to self-destruct. It matters not to them. Heck, a lot of them would be very happy to see public schools fail in the firt place.

  20. Tony Whitson Says:

    Have you considered the teachers’ rights?

    Here’s how the Florida House staff analysts summarize the effects of the proposed legislation there (the pdf linked from
    http://curricublog.org/2008/04/13/florida-house-bills/ ):

    Effect of Proposed Changes:

    Teacher’s Rights and Prescribed Curriculum:

    The bill provides that every public school teacher in grades K through 12 has the “affirmative right and freedom” to “objectively present scientific information relevant to the full range of views regarding biological and chemical evolution in connection with teaching any prescribed curriculum regarding chemical or biological origins.” If a teacher determines that certain information is sufficiently “scientific” and “relevant,” the teacher has a “right” to teach that material irrespective of whether such information is contrary to the curriculum adopted by the State Board of Education through the SSS or by the school district through its instructional materials. The principal, the district school superintendent, the district school board, or the State Board of Education may disagree that the information is “scientific,” “relevant,” or “objectively present[ed];” however, that fact does not affect that teacher’s “right” to present the material. If the principal or other school district staff attempts to restrict a teacher’s ability to teach such information, or govern the manner of presentation, it appears the bill grants the teacher a cause of action to enforce the “right” granted in the bill.11

    The bill, in effect, with regard only to biological or chemical evolution restricts the ability of the State Board of Education or the district school board to define and regulate curriculum content.

  21. tonya Says:

    you’re dumb and stupid.

  22. mek1980 Says:

    Bravo! Excellent post.

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